Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[mulhuzz]

AAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!   

I hate all this, Nanny State, Health & Safety gone mad bollocks.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-15878361


Every time I see one of those "DANGER RISK OF FALLING" signs on a wall, I feel like throwing myself off a wall without a sign and suing the council.

things like this, and reactions like this, make me mad and here's why:

The dirty little secret is that this has *nothing* to do with Health and Safety gone mad, and nor is it the outpouring of a nanny state. Rather, reactions like this from the council in question are a highly appropriate response to the increasing litigious nature of people in the UK today; mainly stemming from a false sense of entitlement and the refusal to accept blame. More and more people are suing councils for slipping on the roadside, something which in 99% of cases is a pure accident and nothing to do with the negligence of the person laying that paving stone. And other such fun stories.

People seem to think that they're 'entitled' to it. Crash your car? Not your fault? Sue for whiplash even if you haven't felt better in years, because you're entitled to it!

Actually, no, just fuck off with your whiplash claim, will you? You're denying access to justice to people who really need it, raising insurance premiums higher for everyone because of adverse selection and ensuring that the council have to put signs on rocks that they make.

[Skippy]

The key line for me is "Gwynedd council has a duty of care to ensure that members of the public are warned of any danger that they may encounter". No, really not. When would you stop?

[Skippy]

things like this, and reactions like this, make me mad and here's why:

The dirty little secret is that this has *nothing* to do with Health and Safety gone mad, and nor is it the outpouring of a nanny state. Rather, reactions like this from the council in question are a highly appropriate response to the increasing litigious nature of people in the UK today; mainly stemming from a false sense of entitlement and the refusal to accept blame. More and more people are suing councils for slipping on the roadside, something which in 99% of cases is a pure accident and nothing to do with the negligence of the person laying that paving stone. And other such fun stories.

People seem to think that they're 'entitled' to it. Crash your car? Not your fault? Sue for whiplash even if you haven't felt better in years, because you're entitled to it!

Actually, no, just fuck off with your whiplash claim, will you? You're denying access to justice to people who really need it, raising insurance premiums higher for everyone because of adverse selection and ensuring that the council have to put signs on rocks that they make.

I can't agree with this. If I sue you for something the court doesn't just award me money, I've got to prove my case. If you feel that damages are being awarded where they are not merited, that's a call to reform the legal system, not a call for people to stop sueing.

If you sue someone and win, you are entitled to it. You are right in that lot more people are sueing now than they used to do- I see that as a good thing because many more people are getting access to justice. If you've hurt yourself and deserve compensation, you should claim it. The problems as I see it are the legal system making bad decisions, and the high cost of defending claims, even if they are completely meritless.

[mulhuzz]

I can't agree with this. If I sue you for something the court doesn't just award me money, I've got to prove my case. If you feel that damages are being awarded where they are not merited, that's a call to reform the legal system, not a call for people to stop sueing.

If you sue someone and win, you are entitled to it. You are right in that lot more people are sueing now than they used to do- I see that as a good thing because many more people are getting access to justice. If you've hurt yourself and deserve compensation, you should claim it. The problems as I see it are the legal system making bad decisions, and the high cost of defending claims, even if they are completely meritless.

It's access to a justice that doesn't exist though. Most insurance companies and councils just pay out before anything ever reaches court (because, amongst other things, of the prohibitively high cost of running a defense, as you point out) so there's no real justice. Even lots of the time they don't admit liability, but just pay out. It's fucking absurd. And the reason it is like this is because people think that when they trip and fall, it *must* be someone else's fault.

It is ridiculously easy to win a personal injury case. I could teach 10 year olds to do it (let's imagine they had rights of audience ) in about an hour. The legal system is broken in this area (and also in the far more important areas of privacy and defamation, but more on that perhaps another time) but there is a real societal problem here.

The problem is that people will not accept blame for their actions and always feel that it must be someone else's fault. Well, m'lud, was it the fact that a strap wasn't buckled whilst you were rockclimbing or the fact that you were pissed out of your face when you went that caused the incident? It probably doesn't matter because you're going to blame someone else for allowing you to rockclimb pissed anyway. And you're right, if it's genuinely not your fault, *and somebody was negligent or reckless* you should be compensated, but please let's stop thinking we're entitled to money when it's neither our fault, nor anybody else's, either. There is no such thing as an accident anymore, and that is a terrible thing.

edit: I'm sorry if there are any personal injury lawyers reading this - I hope you're the small part of the profession trying to find solutions, not the vast majority of you who are lazy and feckless and do personal injury because it's the easiest way to pay bills.

[david3103]

things like this, and reactions like this, make me mad and here's why:

The dirty little secret is that this has *nothing* to do with Health and Safety gone mad, and nor is it the outpouring of a nanny state. Rather, reactions like this from the council in question are a highly appropriate response to the increasing litigious nature of people in the UK today; mainly stemming from a false sense of entitlement and the refusal to accept blame. More and more people are suing councils for slipping on the roadside, something which in 99% of cases is a pure accident and nothing to do with the negligence of the person laying that paving stone. And other such fun stories.

People seem to think that they're 'entitled' to it. Crash your car? Not your fault? Sue for whiplash even if you haven't felt better in years, because you're entitled to it!

Actually, no, just fuck off with your whiplash claim, will you? You're denying access to justice to people who really need it, raising insurance premiums higher for everyone because of adverse selection and ensuring that the council have to put signs on rocks that they make.

I can't agree with this. If I sue you for something the court doesn't just award me money, I've got to prove my case. If you feel that damages are being awarded where they are not merited, that's a call to reform the legal system, not a call for people to stop sueing.

If you sue someone and win, you are entitled to it. You are right in that lot more people are sueing now than they used to do- I see that as a good thing because many more people are getting access to justice. If you've hurt yourself and deserve compensation, you should claim it. The problems as I see it are the legal system making bad decisions, and the high cost of defending claims, even if they are completely meritless.

If you've hurt yourself who do you sue?

[RED-DOG]

I can't agree with this. If I sue you for something the court doesn't just award me money, I've got to prove my case. If you feel that damages are being awarded where they are not merited, that's a call to reform the legal system, not a call for people to stop sueing.

If you sue someone and win, you are entitled to it. You are right in that lot more people are sueing now than they used to do- I see that as a good thing because many more people are getting access to justice. If you've hurt yourself and deserve compensation, you should claim it. The problems as I see it are the legal system making bad decisions, and the high cost of defending claims, even if they are completely meritless.

It's access to a justice that doesn't exist though. Most insurance companies and councils just pay out before anything ever reaches court (because, amongst other things, of the prohibitively high cost of running a defense, as you point out) so there's no real justice. Even lots of the time they don't admit liability, but just pay out. It's fucking absurd. And the reason it is like this is because people think that when they trip and fall, it *must* be someone else's fault.

It is ridiculously easy to win a personal injury case. I could teach 10 year olds to do it (let's imagine they had rights of audience ) in about an hour. The legal system is broken in this area (and also in the far more important areas of privacy and defamation, but more on that perhaps another time) but there is a real societal problem here.

The problem is that people will not accept blame for their actions and always feel that it must be someone else's fault. Well, m'lud, was it the fact that a strap wasn't buckled whilst you were rockclimbing or the fact that you were pissed out of your face when you went that caused the incident? It probably doesn't matter because you're going to blame someone else for allowing you to rockclimb pissed anyway. And you're right, if it's genuinely not your fault, *and somebody was negligent or reckless* you should be compensated, but please let's stop thinking we're entitled to money when it's neither our fault, nor anybody else's, either. There is no such thing as an accident anymore, and that is a terrible thing.

Great post!

[boldie]

The entire project I'm currently doing is based around this litigation culture.

My client has approx 6k Telecomms sites with masts and monopoles etc. on this.

We are now putting up new and revising old anti-climb systems on all of them as when someone climbs the tower and then jumps off, or falls, my client will lose a lot of money due to lawsuits and fines.

There is a seperate signage project going on for 10k telecomms sites that also warn people that climbing on a 30M high structure might well be dangerous for the same reason.

Seriously, it's just stupid.

[RED-DOG]

Can I sue them for causing me to pull my hair out?

[boldie]

Can I sue them for causing me to pull my hair out?

Probably, ever since that stupid drama series on ITV a few years ago we have had a ridic amount of complaints from people saying that "Our towers will cause cancer"...people are idiots

[RED-DOG]

[kinboshi]

Got something through our front door telling us about a mobile phone mast that they're intending to put up across the road.  We can go to some meeting and voice any objections, etc.

Bollocks to that - we'll have a cracking mobie signal once that goes up!!

[RED-DOG]

[RED-DOG]

Click to see full-size image.

[RED-DOG]

This sign really pisses me off....

[RED-DOG]

If they have no sign you think 'What, no baby on board? I must crash into them immediately'