Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[thetank]

If you buy a new car to fix your wipers, the car hasn't been improved. It's new.

However, your car situation can be said to have improved. As has your wiper situatuion.

This would also be true if you fixed your wipers on the original car. The car would not be new, but you could say that it has improved.

OK, I can agree, with that, (I think) but, what point are you making?

(If I'm missing something obvious, it's been a long day)

Hold or Fold's contention that if a thing has been improved, it cannot also be true that this thing is new.

The world exists of many things. These things go through a life cycle, from their birth or genesis (where they are new) then through a serious of 0 or more improvements (note: these may be negative improvements) and finally death.

Any given thing cannot simultaneously exist in two of these states. It is either new or improved.

Personally I'm not wholly convinced either way. It's all semantics.

[RED-DOG]

If you buy a new car to fix your wipers, the car hasn't been improved. It's new.

However, your car situation can be said to have improved. As has your wiper situatuion.

This would also be true if you fixed your wipers on the original car. The car would not be new, but you could say that it has improved.

OK, I can agree, with that, (I think) but, what point are you making?

(If I'm missing something obvious, it's been a long day)

If you're not missing something obvious will it have been a short day?

Sigh.... I'm beginning to wish I hadn't bothered contradicting Holdy.

Do your wishes have a start and an end Tom?

I wish I knew.

[RED-DOG]

If you buy a new car to fix your wipers, the car hasn't been improved. It's new.

However, your car situation can be said to have improved. As has your wiper situatuion.

This would also be true if you fixed your wipers on the original car. The car would not be new, but you could say that it has improved.

OK, I can agree, with that, (I think) but, what point are you making?

(If I'm missing something obvious, it's been a long day)

Hold or Fold's contention that if a thing has been improved, it cannot also be true that this thing is new.

The world exists of many things. These things go through a life cycle, from their birth or genesis (where they are new) then through a serious of 0 or more improvements (note: these may be negative improvements) and finally death.

Any given thing cannot simultaneously exist in two of these states. It is either new or improved.

Personally I'm not wholly convinced either way. It's all semantics.

Negetive improvenents? I'm not buying that one.

[thetank]

Oh yes, and the improvement of the nature of the thing is distinct from an improvement in your situation.

[RED-DOG]

Oh yes, and the improvement of the nature of the thing is distinct from an improvement in your situation.

Who brough that distinction into the equation? Well you did obviously, but why?

[The_nun]

Breaking news.... The washing machine has thawed out.

Clean skivvies, here I come.

I too can now leave the house in clean skivvies Tom. Ours thawed yesterday after bursting twice in the garage.

[Nakor]

Why is gold and jewelery "Appraised" instead of valued?

Probably because 'appraised' suggests a personal opinion on the worth of the gold (ie the lowest price they think you'll accept), whereas 'valued' suggests a more absolute figure.

You're sharp today Andrew. I'm sure that's exactly right.

Crafty buggers.


While were at it, what does "Up to 50% off all sat-navs" mean?


AND.... (I hate this one) "All you have to do to win is answer this simple question"

No it's not. You have to answer the simple question, and then go into a draw along with thousands of other entries.

The one that irritates me is ... New and improved   ... branding on supermarket products

How can it be new AND improved???   It's either new OR improved surely.

I've had a think about this and, (Dare I say it?) Your'e wrong.

It can be new, without being improved.

It can be improved, without being new.

It can also be both new, and improved.

Fresh food/Short life food can only be marked/advertised as new for 6 months after launch or recipe change.
Improved tells you it has been changed from the product you previously bought.

Reality at this time is "New and Improved" means "made cheaper then before".

Good to see the blog back full steam Tom.

[RED-DOG]

Why is gold and jewelery "Appraised" instead of valued?

Probably because 'appraised' suggests a personal opinion on the worth of the gold (ie the lowest price they think you'll accept), whereas 'valued' suggests a more absolute figure.

You're sharp today Andrew. I'm sure that's exactly right.

Crafty buggers.


While were at it, what does "Up to 50% off all sat-navs" mean?


AND.... (I hate this one) "All you have to do to win is answer this simple question"

No it's not. You have to answer the simple question, and then go into a draw along with thousands of other entries.

The one that irritates me is ... New and improved   ... branding on supermarket products

How can it be new AND improved???   It's either new OR improved surely.

I've had a think about this and, (Dare I say it?) Your'e wrong.

It can be new, without being improved.

It can be improved, without being new.

It can also be both new, and improved.

Fresh food/Short life food can only be marked/advertised as new for 6 months after launch or recipe change.
Improved tells you it has been changed from the product you previously bought.

Reality at this time is "New and Improved" means "made cheaper then before".

Good to see the blog back full steam Tom.

I'll settle for this if Tank and Holdy will.

[thetank]

Oh yes, and the improvement of the nature of the thing is distinct from an improvement in your situation.

Who brough that distinction into the equation? Well you did obviously, but why?

because a new thing may bring about improvements.

This makes it counter intuitive to accept Hold or Folds hypothesis that newness and improvedness cannot co-exist. That is unless we accept the above distinction.

[thetank]

I'll settle for this if Tank and Holdy will.

I'll buy anything

[RED-DOG]

Oh yes, and the improvement of the nature of the thing is distinct from an improvement in your situation.

Who brough that distinction into the equation? Well you did obviously, but why?

because a new thing may bring about improvements.

This makes it counter intuitive to accept Hold or Folds hypothesis that newness and improvedness cannot co-exist. That is unless we accept the above distinction.

Ah, I didn't realise what you meant until now.

We're both right, and Holdy is wrong.

[RED-DOG]

Any news on a domestic help, or Maid, yet?

Zelly says the next time you visit, she's giving you your tea in Peggy Shitter's cup.

[HOLDorFOLD]

Why is gold and jewelery "Appraised" instead of valued?

Probably because 'appraised' suggests a personal opinion on the worth of the gold (ie the lowest price they think you'll accept), whereas 'valued' suggests a more absolute figure.

You're sharp today Andrew. I'm sure that's exactly right.

Crafty buggers.


While were at it, what does "Up to 50% off all sat-navs" mean?


AND.... (I hate this one) "All you have to do to win is answer this simple question"

No it's not. You have to answer the simple question, and then go into a draw along with thousands of other entries.

The one that irritates me is ... New and improved   ... branding on supermarket products

How can it be new AND improved???   It's either new OR improved surely.

I've had a think about this and, (Dare I say it?) You're wrong.

It can be new, without being improved.

It can be improved, without being new.

It can also be both new, and improved.

FYP - Dare I say it's now improved but not new?

 

[HOLDorFOLD]

I'll settle for this if Tank and Holdy will.

I'll buy anything

So will I if it's new and improved cheaper than before 

[RED-DOG]

   Right. that's it. No more. Pleeeeese.