Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[Laxie]

We've a pic of technolog, but his feet aren't in the correct position.  To be fair, he was in a lift and prolly too tall to fit properly...sideways.

[gatso]

I'm quite taken by this.

http://damncoolpics.blogspot.com/2010/03/lying-down-game-on-facebook.html

Cash prize of over £4.50, an alcoholic beverage, and the title of BLD champion to the person who posts the best blonde lying down pic on here.

PS- No smut please. (Unless via PM).  

when I read the description of what that was I though it was going to be terrible. it's pretty cool though

[RED-DOG]

We've a pic of technolog, but his feet aren't in the correct position.  To be fair, he was in a lift and prolly too tall to fit properly...sideways.

They don't have to be existing pics....

[Laxie]

We've a pic of technolog, but his feet aren't in the correct position.  To be fair, he was in a lift and prolly too tall to fit properly...sideways.

They don't have to be existing pics....

Oh cool!  We'll do a 'Take two' in Killarney.  He won't mind. 

[technolog]

We've a pic of technolog, but his feet aren't in the correct position.  To be fair, he was in a lift and prolly too tall to fit properly...sideways.

They don't have to be existing pics....

Oh cool!  We'll do a 'Take two' in Killarney.  He won't mind. 

 

[highmile]

Well my experience of Gypsies / Travellers has been very varied.

My first contact was with a guy who swore he was from pure Romany stock; lovely guy, good friend and his family were good as gold. They had settled on a council estate and integrated with those around them, the kids were just like the rest of us and went through school like we did.

Where I was brought up the were actually brass plates on the pub doors 'No Travellers'. There was a site very close to where I lived but I didn't know that for years, I never had any contact with those that lived there and obviously no trouble, One evening my mate came into the pub and introduced me to his new chum, I shook his hand and he immediately told me that he was from the site and a traveller but he was not like most of them and only wanted to have a drink and a good evening. He turned out to be a really nice guy and I wondered what all the fuss was about.

Years later having moved to a 'decent' place to bring up my family I again became aware that there was a Traveller presence, both settled and those on sites. These people are barred from most of the pubs in the area and most of the 'locals' (many have moved here because they think they are posh!) really wish that they would move on. The problems seems to be with their behaviour in the pubs, the typical scenario goes something like this:

A couple of Travellers go into the pub, when they are served they call up the rest of the 'clan' who turn up en masse. They spend a fortune and become very loud and upset the regulars and one of two things happen:

1/ They start a fight either amongst themselves or with the locals

2/ They drink and spend so much that at closing time they believe that they now 'own' the pub and the standard statement is 'we will tell you when we've had enough' they will then kick off if refused more drink.

We speak about how immigrants don't want to integrate but want to reap the benefits of this country, I don't think that Gypsies and Travellers are quite the same as they are happy to stay outside 'society' but would contend the argument that 'we', 'society', should put ourselves out to accommodate those that just want to take the benefits without contributing.

Just an observation really but hopefully food for thought and discussion.

This is a good post, I will attempt to give it a little more balance, but please don't think I'm trying to make excuses. Gangs of drunken Gypsies are just as bad, if not worse than any other drunken group.

As you point out, Gypsies are barred from a lot of pubs, so when they do find one that will serve them, they ring their mates.

They are loud, and they are prone to fighting, (Especially with each other) but remember, these are not the entire Gypsy race, they are the ones who go out and get drunk.

It's always going to be easy for them to fall out with the locals. The locals resent them, of course they do. it's perfectly understandable, this big gang of loud-talking strangers who have taken over their pub.

You have to admit that with any race or creed, it's the ones among them who go out in a group and get drunk that are most likely to get into trouble.

Lots of Gypsies don't drink at all, but that won't be taken into account by someone who got a fat lip in the pub when he bumps into that teetotal Gypsy at a later date.

The difference is, there are good, well behaved Gypsies, and bad loutish Gypsies, just like anyone else, but where the settled community are concerned, the newspaper will read "Mr Brown and Mr White from Main St committed X crime".If it's my community on the other hand, the newspaper reads: "The gypsies from the Main Rd site committed X crime"

You said

We speak about how immigrants don't want to integrate but want to reap the benefits of this country, I don't think that Gypsies and Travellers are quite the same as they are happy to stay outside 'society' but would contend the argument that 'we', 'society', should put ourselves out to accommodate those that just want to take the benefits without contributing

I'm not sure about this bit. Who is we? And just because you speak about immigrants that way doesn't mean that it's true. Especially not for ALL immigrants.

You also seem to be putting words into the mouths of the Gypsies.

Please don't think I'm arguing with you, I'm just accepting your invitation to debate.

Now I have a theory! 

When I, as a 'gorger', meet my fellow 'gorgers' I will meet 98% of decent people and 2% of bad people, drunks and other bad folk.

When I as a gorger meet a traveller, because I am not likely to meet one who doesn't drink or otherwise 'do what we do', it is highly likely that I will only meet a high % of 'wrong un's' and as such my opinion will be that because such a high % are bad then most of them must be.

So what I am trying to say, probably very badly, is that the general public are very unlikely to come into contact with the decent majority of the Gypsy/Traveller community but will come into contact with the worst elements of them and judge the whole community by that experience.

Opinions welcomed.

[RED-DOG]

I think the flaw in your theory lies in the fact that the "Wrong uns" are not the only Gypsies you will meet, they are just the only ones you will notice.

Of course the general public regularly comes into contact with Gypsies. My family, friends and I mix with "Normal people" every day, no one notices us. They don't go home and say "I met some decent Gypsies today".

The unfortunate fact is that most people don't judge Gypsies from experience. They judge from ignorance, fear, media hype, and a lifetime's worth of negative stereotyping.

 

[thetank]

BTW- Anyone been watching The Big C?

Caught the pilot and it looked very good. Excellent lead actress, good premise and some intriguing characters. Has potential.

Haven't been keeping up with it though, will probably wait for the DVD and watch them all at once.

[RED-DOG]

"A History of Aincient Britan" is brilliant.

Catch up on BBC iplayer

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00yk27f/A_History_of_Ancient_Britain_Series_1_Episode_1/

[RED-DOG]

Hit the - 2 stone mark today. 
15st 4½lb

13st 4½lb 

[RED-DOG]

English deep stack. One round penalty for passing out of turn.
I love it. All tourneys should be played this way.

[tikay]

All of these taken on google street view

http://9-eyes.com/

Terrific!

[tikay]

Hit the - 2 stone mark today. 
15st 4½lb

13st 4½lb 

That is some dieting Tom - well done.

I dropped a stone in a month, easy peasy, but now I'm bloody stuck, my weight has not moved for nearly 2 weeks.

[highmile]

I think the flaw in your theory lies in the fact that the "Wrong uns" are not the only Gypsies you will meet, they are just the only ones you will notice.
Of course the general public regularly comes into contact with Gypsies. My family, friends and I mix with "Normal people" every day, no one notices us. They don't go home and say "I met some decent Gypsies today".

The unfortunate fact is that most people don't judge Gypsies from experience. They judge from ignorance, fear, media hype, and a lifetime's worth of negative stereotyping.

 

Well I thought that was exactly what I was saying! But I do accept my mistake, I said that 'we' don't know of the decent Traveller folk because they don't mix, probably we don't we don't know of them because they just get about their business without bothering 'us'.

[Claw75]

I met up with Andrew this evening.....

Click to see full-size image.