Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[Rod Paradise]

Some great archery photos there Rod and wow at the distance and angle required to hit the target let alone judging the pull back, not sure if that's the correct teckie term. I've done archery on activity hols many times with Joo and the boys and absolutely loved it.

Watching it right now actually.

When I did it you pretty much tried for your maximum draw length every time - the point being to have the arrow leave at the same speed - you then adjusted angle for distance. I drew to the face, ie my fingers touched the corner of my jawbone. Others will draw to the ear, and some archery methods use a kisser - an attachment that goes on the string and draws back till you kiss it - slows the string though.

Re Red's question on deer shooting - the bows are powerful enough that if you can hit it - you can kill it. Modern usage medieval bows are usually up to 60 pounds draw weight, and have an effective range of 180-200 yards - but the accuracy to kill a deer? Even the good shots would want to be within 40-50 I'd reckon.

In Medieval times? Did some googling to confirm my thinking -  Bows from the Mary Rose have been estimated at 100-185 pounds of draw. Henry VIII declared minimum practice distance 220 yards. A professional archer shooting for distance with a flight arrow could shoot 400 yards. War shooting was more amount of arrows than accuracy, but an archer would be expected to hit a man at 180 yards, and hit an army at up to 300. If you could kill a man you could kill a deer - so 180 odd yards I'd guess.

remember they found archers skeletons on the Mary Rose with deformed shoulders from the buildup of muscle from the shooting of these massive bows - that's why the gun overtook the bow even when it was inferior in range, rate of fire and accuracy. It takes a few minutes to teach someone to shoot - but they could be taught - medieval archers were raised as archers.

Cracking stuff Rod. You're interested in some really interesting things.

It's great fun & I'm a big kid. Getting into the mongol style bows now, thumbring draw, chance to aim (you have to loose as soon as you reach full draw with a medieval bow, otherwise the wood starts to settle - meaning the shot has less power and is unreliable for distance). Just shooting a modern materials (wiid and fibreglass laminate) 40 pound draw replica at the moment - need to get the shoulder muscles back & build up the finger callouses, before heading up to the 60lb and above.

I made a crossbow when I was a kid. it was really crude, especially the trigger mechanism, but it would have killed a deer (Or a man) no problem.

I can quite believe it - deadly forces and fairly easy to make.

On holiday in Prague I dragged my girlfriend to a shooting range where we shot a variety of guns (Glock, AK47 M16, Sniper Rifle etc). She now want to do more shooting, but there's a ban on air-rifles coming in Scotland, so i'm thinking of buying a crossbow instead - inspired lawmaking from unthinking townies pandering to unthinking townies and sensationalist papers - instead of buying a weapon that shoots small lead pellets at what is not usually a lethal power, I'm ending up with a 'toy' that can shoot a metal bolt through a man with ease. The world just got safer....

[RED-DOG]

Some great archery photos there Rod and wow at the distance and angle required to hit the target let alone judging the pull back, not sure if that's the correct teckie term. I've done archery on activity hols many times with Joo and the boys and absolutely loved it.

Watching it right now actually.

When I did it you pretty much tried for your maximum draw length every time - the point being to have the arrow leave at the same speed - you then adjusted angle for distance. I drew to the face, ie my fingers touched the corner of my jawbone. Others will draw to the ear, and some archery methods use a kisser - an attachment that goes on the string and draws back till you kiss it - slows the string though.

Re Red's question on deer shooting - the bows are powerful enough that if you can hit it - you can kill it. Modern usage medieval bows are usually up to 60 pounds draw weight, and have an effective range of 180-200 yards - but the accuracy to kill a deer? Even the good shots would want to be within 40-50 I'd reckon.

In Medieval times? Did some googling to confirm my thinking -  Bows from the Mary Rose have been estimated at 100-185 pounds of draw. Henry VIII declared minimum practice distance 220 yards. A professional archer shooting for distance with a flight arrow could shoot 400 yards. War shooting was more amount of arrows than accuracy, but an archer would be expected to hit a man at 180 yards, and hit an army at up to 300. If you could kill a man you could kill a deer - so 180 odd yards I'd guess.

remember they found archers skeletons on the Mary Rose with deformed shoulders from the buildup of muscle from the shooting of these massive bows - that's why the gun overtook the bow even when it was inferior in range, rate of fire and accuracy. It takes a few minutes to teach someone to shoot - but they could be taught - medieval archers were raised as archers.

Cracking stuff Rod. You're interested in some really interesting things.

It's great fun & I'm a big kid. Getting into the mongol style bows now, thumbring draw, chance to aim (you have to loose as soon as you reach full draw with a medieval bow, otherwise the wood starts to settle - meaning the shot has less power and is unreliable for distance). Just shooting a modern materials (wiid and fibreglass laminate) 40 pound draw replica at the moment - need to get the shoulder muscles back & build up the finger callouses, before heading up to the 60lb and above.

I made a crossbow when I was a kid. it was really crude, especially the trigger mechanism, but it would have killed a deer (Or a man) no problem.

I can quite believe it - deadly forces and fairly easy to make.

On holiday in Prague I dragged my girlfriend to a shooting range where we shot a variety of guns (Glock, AK47 M16, Sniper Rifle etc). She now want to do more shooting, but there's a ban on air-rifles coming in Scotland, so i'm thinking of buying a crossbow instead - inspired lawmaking from unthinking townies pandering to unthinking townies and sensationalist papers - instead of buying a weapon that shoots small lead pellets at what is not usually a lethal power, I'm ending up with a 'toy' that can shoot a metal bolt through a man with ease. The world just got safer....

Gun laws are abs rdic imo Rod. They only prevent law-abiding people from owning guns.

Don't get me started on knife laws....

[Rod Paradise]

Some great archery photos there Rod and wow at the distance and angle required to hit the target let alone judging the pull back, not sure if that's the correct teckie term. I've done archery on activity hols many times with Joo and the boys and absolutely loved it.

Watching it right now actually.

When I did it you pretty much tried for your maximum draw length every time - the point being to have the arrow leave at the same speed - you then adjusted angle for distance. I drew to the face, ie my fingers touched the corner of my jawbone. Others will draw to the ear, and some archery methods use a kisser - an attachment that goes on the string and draws back till you kiss it - slows the string though.

Re Red's question on deer shooting - the bows are powerful enough that if you can hit it - you can kill it. Modern usage medieval bows are usually up to 60 pounds draw weight, and have an effective range of 180-200 yards - but the accuracy to kill a deer? Even the good shots would want to be within 40-50 I'd reckon.

In Medieval times? Did some googling to confirm my thinking -  Bows from the Mary Rose have been estimated at 100-185 pounds of draw. Henry VIII declared minimum practice distance 220 yards. A professional archer shooting for distance with a flight arrow could shoot 400 yards. War shooting was more amount of arrows than accuracy, but an archer would be expected to hit a man at 180 yards, and hit an army at up to 300. If you could kill a man you could kill a deer - so 180 odd yards I'd guess.

remember they found archers skeletons on the Mary Rose with deformed shoulders from the buildup of muscle from the shooting of these massive bows - that's why the gun overtook the bow even when it was inferior in range, rate of fire and accuracy. It takes a few minutes to teach someone to shoot - but they could be taught - medieval archers were raised as archers.

Cracking stuff Rod. You're interested in some really interesting things.

It's great fun & I'm a big kid. Getting into the mongol style bows now, thumbring draw, chance to aim (you have to loose as soon as you reach full draw with a medieval bow, otherwise the wood starts to settle - meaning the shot has less power and is unreliable for distance). Just shooting a modern materials (wiid and fibreglass laminate) 40 pound draw replica at the moment - need to get the shoulder muscles back & build up the finger callouses, before heading up to the 60lb and above.

I made a crossbow when I was a kid. it was really crude, especially the trigger mechanism, but it would have killed a deer (Or a man) no problem.

I can quite believe it - deadly forces and fairly easy to make.

On holiday in Prague I dragged my girlfriend to a shooting range where we shot a variety of guns (Glock, AK47 M16, Sniper Rifle etc). She now want to do more shooting, but there's a ban on air-rifles coming in Scotland, so i'm thinking of buying a crossbow instead - inspired lawmaking from unthinking townies pandering to unthinking townies and sensationalist papers - instead of buying a weapon that shoots small lead pellets at what is not usually a lethal power, I'm ending up with a 'toy' that can shoot a metal bolt through a man with ease. The world just got safer....

Gun laws are abs rdic imo Rod. They only prevent law-abiding people from owning guns.

Don't get me started on knife laws....

Knife laws - and then the reporting of them. I've had people tell me to put my pocket knife away in case I get arrested - even though it's perfectly legal. Only problem is remembering to take it out of my pocket on the way to the football - that would be illegal.

[RED-DOG]

I've carried a Swiss Army knife for almost 40 years. You should see the fuss it causes at security when I visit government institutions these days.

I went to Westminster the other day. I had to pass through the new, purpose built security annex where I handed my knife to a guard before going through the metal detector. He put it into a safe and gave me a receipt.

After my visit I handed in my receipt and reclaimed my knife. Then I realised that one of my party was missing. The guard allowed me to go back inside to look for her with my knife now in my pocket.

[Jon MW]

I'm not so sure about all those tranklements on the bow though. Where do you draw the line? A tripod? Laser guidance?

Click to see full-size image.

My brother has represented Wales in Archery (qualifying by residency) and his bow looked a bit like this, but I think  lot of it is for comfort and balance rather than helping a lot with the guidance. Might be wrong though - I never actually paid 'that' much attention when he was talking about archery

[RED-DOG]

I'm not so sure about all those tranklements on the bow though. Where do you draw the line? A tripod? Laser guidance?

Click to see full-size image.

My brother has represented Wales in Archery (qualifying by residency) and his bow looked a bit like this, but I think  lot of it is for comfort and balance rather than helping a lot with the guidance. Might be wrong though - I never actually paid 'that' much attention when he was talking about archery

Fancy him droning on about archery when you wanted to talk about swimming. 

[Dino]

On holiday in Prague I dragged my girlfriend to a shooting range where we shot a variety of guns (Glock, AK47 M16, Sniper Rifle etc). She now want to do more shooting, but there's a ban on air-rifles coming in Scotland, so i'm thinking of buying a crossbow instead - inspired lawmaking from unthinking townies pandering to unthinking townies and sensationalist papers - instead of buying a weapon that shoots small lead pellets at what is not usually a lethal power, I'm ending up with a 'toy' that can shoot a metal bolt through a man with ease. The world just got safer....

Join a local gun club,you are not gong to shoot Glock's or AK's but there are plenty of other guns legal in the UK.
Don't worry about an airgun ban,I think the worst that will happen is a licensing system for them in Scotland.

[Rod Paradise]

On holiday in Prague I dragged my girlfriend to a shooting range where we shot a variety of guns (Glock, AK47 M16, Sniper Rifle etc). She now want to do more shooting, but there's a ban on air-rifles coming in Scotland, so i'm thinking of buying a crossbow instead - inspired lawmaking from unthinking townies pandering to unthinking townies and sensationalist papers - instead of buying a weapon that shoots small lead pellets at what is not usually a lethal power, I'm ending up with a 'toy' that can shoot a metal bolt through a man with ease. The world just got safer....

Join a local gun club,you are not gong to shoot Glock's or AK's but there are plenty of other guns legal in the UK.
Don't worry about an airgun ban,I think the worst that will happen is a licensing system for them in Scotland.

Licensing just stops people using them though, all over a junkie and a fluke that led to a kid dying. When the law comes in I'll be able to get a 9mm semi-automatic (illegally) with less hassle than getting an air rifle, the crossbow legally bought gives me far more killing power, if I wanted to kill someone with a non-FAC air rifle I'd use it as a bludgeon.

 I could join a club but it's a fair distance (27 miles the closest I can find), while I have a disused quarry teeming with rabbits that's perfect for shooting out the back of the house. The laws as being introduced will make people only very slighly safer, while inconveniencing a lot more law abiding people.

[Dino]

If you wanted to shoot animals with an airgun, even without a ban, you would need the landowners permission,and of course hunting with any sort of bow is illegal.

[Rod Paradise]

If you wanted to shoot animals with an airgun, even without a ban, you would need the landowners permission,and of course hunting with any sort of bow is illegal.

Oh I know - got permissions, gave up the gun a few years back only to rekindle interest. Bow hunting is illegal - due to an MP sleeping in, ridiculously his doing so is not reversible without a redrafting of the law & no-one's willing to take on the anti-hunting lobby to get it reinstated. Hunting with a catapult is still legal though.

Although I have a mate with the deerstalking rights to a few square miles & his own range (a long clearing in a forestry wood), for the price of some ammo I'm sure I could get some shooting in & if I'm a good enough shot still some venison for the freezer....

[Laxie]

Hey Tom, where's the best place around here (or online) to buy wild bird seed?  Muchas gracias in advance.   

[rex008]

If you wanted to shoot animals with an airgun, even without a ban, you would need the landowners permission,and of course hunting with any sort of bow is illegal.

Oh I know - got permissions, gave up the gun a few years back only to rekindle interest. Bow hunting is illegal - due to an MP sleeping in, ridiculously his doing so is not reversible without a redrafting of the law & no-one's willing to take on the anti-hunting lobby to get it reinstated. Hunting with a catapult is still legal though.

Although I have a mate with the deerstalking rights to a few square miles & his own range (a long clearing in a forestry wood), for the price of some ammo I'm sure I could get some shooting in & if I'm a good enough shot still some venison for the freezer....

You could always print your own rifle. Ok, something of a simplification, and only works in a country where M16 parts are readily available, but  anyway.

[Rod Paradise]

If you wanted to shoot animals with an airgun, even without a ban, you would need the landowners permission,and of course hunting with any sort of bow is illegal.

Oh I know - got permissions, gave up the gun a few years back only to rekindle interest. Bow hunting is illegal - due to an MP sleeping in, ridiculously his doing so is not reversible without a redrafting of the law & no-one's willing to take on the anti-hunting lobby to get it reinstated. Hunting with a catapult is still legal though.

Although I have a mate with the deerstalking rights to a few square miles & his own range (a long clearing in a forestry wood), for the price of some ammo I'm sure I could get some shooting in & if I'm a good enough shot still some venison for the freezer....

You could always print your own rifle. Ok, something of a simplification, and only works in a country where M16 parts are readily available, but  anyway.

Wow - brave/stupid move firing the thing!!! Would make reactivating a deactivated 'ornament' a lot easier too, although I think the firing pin is removed & I doubt a plastic one would work well.

Cory Doctorow has done some sci-fi looking at the implications for Governments where people can print whatever they want, including weapons - it'll certainly present some problems for oppressive regimes....

[RED-DOG]

Hey Tom, where's the best place around here (or online) to buy wild bird seed?  Muchas gracias in advance.   

Shop around Dawn. I used to buy mine from a garden centre but now I get it from a stall down the market. (Except suet balls that is, I buy them in tubs of 50 for £5.99 from B&M's).

I buy peanuts, niger, wild bird mix or finch mix and sunflower seeds.

[Mohican]