Hand v Moorman in WSOPE

[T_Mar]

Reading 2+2 forums and came across this thread which sparked alot of mixed opinions from some top players  on how the hand was played, in particular the turn and river action

See what you think, anyone put Moorman on a hand?.... If you the player below do you bet the turn?  Do you call the bet on the river?



"I'm obviously not used to play these big things but I'd still appreciate some feedback.
Moorman has been running over the table and is raising a ton of hands. I prolly appear like an inexperienced live player with some online experience who has somehow satellited in and isn't familiar with these stakes (which is 100% correct ldo).
My table image should be fairly tight but I did resteal vs him or make moves every once in a while.
I'm not sure of the exact bet sizes but the general idea should be right.

My stack: ~40k, Moorman covers. Blinds 200/400/25.

I have QsQc in MP2 and make it 1100, Moorman makes it 3500 from the SB, I call.
Flop 8d6h5d he cbets 5200, I call.
Turn , he checks I check.
River , he bets 10500 (this is exact), I call.

Thoughts on every street?"



I couldn't pretend to know Moormans game too well, but imagine him to be pretty aggro, I quite like the way the way this guy played the hand especially as they 100bb deep??

[T_Mar]

This is the 2+2 thread....

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/87/high-stakes-mtt/wsope-hand-1-qq-vs-moorman-310667/

[AdamG]

4 bet pre

[LeKnave]

4 bet pre

pointless, essentially turns QQ into a bluff.  Peeling in pos > 4betting.

fwiw i play it the same on every street.  And probs get KK/AA put in my eye.

[AdamG]

peel and play it like your ahead yeah, but why double check turn with draws out and also no raise on flop - river is call / fold.

[LeKnave]

peel and play it like your ahead yeah, but why double check turn with draws out and also no raise on flop - river is call / fold.

pot control.

[totalise]

i read that thread and evryone was saying how moorman Vbets 99/TT on the river, but I guess I cant see it... the guy comes off as a live nit and has called a 3bet pre and a chunky bet on the flop, AND has checked the turn, which given the pre/flop action defo indicates some kinda pot control a vast % of the time, so I jst cant see how in this spot moorman can vbet 99/TT and expect to get called by worse. Obv if he was playing aginst someone like flushy/pab, it would be different.


i also think that tourney poker has got a bit silly with regards to not 4betting QQ/JJ etc preflop , in a few months im sure everyone will be 4betting those hands again and all will be right with the world.

[LeKnave]

i also think that tourney poker has got a bit silly with regards to not 4betting QQ/JJ etc preflop , in a few months im sure everyone will be 4betting those hands again and all will be right with the world.

if a 'nitty sat winner' 4bets moor pre w/QQ, how is he ever gonna get value from worse?!  or did you just mean in general not this specific spot?

[maldini32]

I play it the same way.

[totalise]

i also think that tourney poker has got a bit silly with regards to not 4betting QQ/JJ etc preflop , in a few months im sure everyone will be 4betting those hands again and all will be right with the world.

if a 'nitty sat winner' 4bets moor pre w/QQ, how is he ever gonna get value from worse?!  or did you just mean in general not this specific spot?

yeah sorry, i mean in general.. it seems like people never 4bet unless its either AA/KK or complete air,  so the function of that 4bet range makes the oppos subsequent actions a lot different then if you can include QQ/JJ/TT etc in it. It just seems so unbalanced somehow.

In this specific spot I dont even think its that terrible, if you assume that moorman is a much better player, and if you assume that moormans 3bet range is sufficiently wide, then 4betting might well only get worse hands folding/better hands calling, but it also avoids our hero making wrong decisions on later streets that could cost him a lot more then winning the pot right here wins him... and theres a non zero chance (although its not admittedly that high) that moorman blows up and QQ gets it in in great shape!

[Royal Flush]

If i am in this pot vs moomin i can probably river shove for value, the player in question meh i dunno moomin aint bluffing here often i probably fold.

[MANTIS01]

I think the guy played his queens very well up until the turn. I don't get why you would check the turn though. The reason you flat pre and flat on the flop is to bet the turn when it's checked to you. Betting the turn gets you in control of the hand and shows the table how it goes when they try and play back at you. I think he must call the river because of that check but he should expect to see 3 jacks and lose. This will be a fitting punishment from the poker gods for checking the turn.

[totalise]

what do you do if moorman sets sail and sends his stack in when you bet the turn?

[Royal Flush]

I think the guy played his queens very well up until the turn. I don't get why you would check the turn though. The reason you flat pre and flat on the flop is to bet the turn when it's checked to you. Betting the turn gets you in control of the hand and shows the table how it goes when they try and play back at you. I think he must call the river because of that check but he should expect to see 3 jacks and lose. This will be a fitting punishment from the poker gods for checking the turn.

I love you

[Dewi_cool]

he's been playing  a lot the moment though