Squeeze play

[tikay]

The problem with calling in this spot is you are using your money to take on a 7-1 gamble. Your stack is getting small and taking on long shot gambles will not improve matters much of the time. So your stack will get shorter still. Calling means you are looking to get lucky to change your situation rather than looking to play poker to change your situation. If both big stacks have limped it is unlikely they have a pair, so pushing with the best hand is a better gamble than 7-1 imo, because it's odds on they will fold, or at least call with the worst of it. Also if you DID hit your set when all-in you will deffo be paid which isn't true if you just call.

We get lucky roughly 1 in 8.5 times on the flop, calling getting correct implied odds to set mine is poker as far as i am concerned. We still are only calling about 4% of our stack off pre which doesn't effect our fold equity on future hands.

Yes, the Call is fine. Optimal, in fact.

[GreekStein]

i hope flushy isnt eating when he reads this thread

[tikay]

ship it all in here please, i love this spot for shoving more than i love House marathon on Five US!

But the OP never made it clear if this was Online, or Live.

I'm assuming Live, because that's my "area". I'll also assume you'd Call in this spot, & never shove, were it to be "Live".

Online, of course, it's different, because our Tourney Life is so cheap, we play 8 or 10 a night, hoping to get a nice score in one. Before we go busto.

depends what tourney as well, i'm assuming it's not a huge buy in in which case limping late and then calling a 12xbb raise is quite common which of course reduces our FE nethertheless we cant sit about all day getting anted to death then wishing we'd shoved the 33 plus if we get looked up by two overs the pot is giving us somethng like 11/8(actually just read he had 12bb so pot odds not that much for the race but it doesnt really matter).

theres 1050 in the pot and its still a 1/3 of the big stacks chips if they want to call so it's a reasonable oppoutunity to pick up whats out there or race for a playable stack if we get looked up.

I shove that live all day as well cos i probs just wanna get to the bar!

As would many Live players. Thank God.

[tikay]

i hope flushy isnt eating when he reads this thread

Anyone care to predict his response?

Evens "lol"?

See my Diary for explanation, by the way.

[bolt pp]

ship it all in here please, i love this spot for shoving more than i love House marathon on Five US!

But the OP never made it clear if this was Online, or Live.

I'm assuming Live, because that's my "area". I'll also assume you'd Call in this spot, & never shove, were it to be "Live".

Online, of course, it's different, because our Tourney Life is so cheap, we play 8 or 10 a night, hoping to get a nice score in one. Before we go busto.

This really should make no difference to our decision, as long as we are trying to maximise our profit and not take into account enjoying the game etc. Which is pretty much what we should be concentrating on a pha board imo.

What is the correct decision in one tourney is the correct decision no matter how many tournies we are playing. Poker is a long term game.

Of course if you are saying the calling range of our shove are different live compared to online well that does change things.

No, it should not, but it does, for the reasons explained.

I'd play it the same Live, or Online, but most Online players play much, much, faster, & much, much, less risk-averse. Does not make it right (or wrong), but there's another Tourney starting in 2 minutes, & we may well be 4-tabling anyway, so it does not matter much. In Live, If I drive 3 hours for a Single Tournament, let me tell you this - I will fight to my last breath to maximise my survival. So I ain't dancing for my entire Tourney with 3's, unless I'm pretty sure I can get my oppos to Pass - and in THAT case, yes, I can shove. But that's a fairly rare situation.

I know it's easy to say in theory but independent factors such as how long it took you to get to a comp shouldnt impact upon the way in which you play it.

[MANTIS01]

The problem with calling in this spot is you are using your money to take on a 7-1 gamble. Your stack is getting small and taking on long shot gambles will not improve matters much of the time. So your stack will get shorter still. Calling means you are looking to get lucky to change your situation rather than looking to play poker to change your situation. If both big stacks have limped it is unlikely they have a pair, so pushing with the best hand is a better gamble than 7-1 imo, because it's odds on they will fold, or at least call with the worst of it. Also if you DID hit your set when all-in you will deffo be paid which isn't true if you just call.

We get lucky roughly 1 in 8.5 times on the flop, calling getting correct implied odds to set mine is poker as far as i am concerned. We still are only calling about 4% of our stack off pre which doesn't effect our fold equity on future hands.

When the field is moving away from you using your dwindling funds to take on an 8.5-1 gamble is maybe a luxury you can't afford. Yes, it's poker but it's not the most appropriate poker for your current situation. Do we use our short stack to chase all manner of draws because we have the correct implied odds to do so? Tournaments aren't cash. They are organic. So you must adapt your strategy to fit your circumstance imo.

[tikay]

ship it all in here please, i love this spot for shoving more than i love House marathon on Five US!

But the OP never made it clear if this was Online, or Live.

I'm assuming Live, because that's my "area". I'll also assume you'd Call in this spot, & never shove, were it to be "Live".

Online, of course, it's different, because our Tourney Life is so cheap, we play 8 or 10 a night, hoping to get a nice score in one. Before we go busto.

This really should make no difference to our decision, as long as we are trying to maximise our profit and not take into account enjoying the game etc. Which is pretty much what we should be concentrating on a pha board imo.

What is the correct decision in one tourney is the correct decision no matter how many tournies we are playing. Poker is a long term game.

Of course if you are saying the calling range of our shove are different live compared to online well that does change things.

No, it should not, but it does, for the reasons explained.

I'd play it the same Live, or Online, but most Online players play much, much, faster, & much, much, less risk-averse. Does not make it right (or wrong), but there's another Tourney starting in 2 minutes, & we may well be 4-tabling anyway, so it does not matter much. In Live, If I drive 3 hours for a Single Tournament, let me tell you this - I will fight to my last breath to maximise my survival. So I ain't dancing for my entire Tourney with 3's, unless I'm pretty sure I can get my oppos to Pass - and in THAT case, yes, I can shove. But that's a fairly rare situation.

I know it's easy to say in theory but independent factors such as how long it took you to get to a comp shouldnt impact upon the way in which you play it.

Yes, but now think outside the box, & turn what you said on it's head.

Does that make calling & shoving light, Online, correct, just because we are 4 Tabling, & planning to play 12 Tourneys (ffs!) in one session, & thus our Tourney Life is very cheap?

Go on, I dare you. Look at it upside down.

[George2Loose]

Please shove here- my range here for shoving is huge.

[tikay]

The problem with calling in this spot is you are using your money to take on a 7-1 gamble. Your stack is getting small and taking on long shot gambles will not improve matters much of the time. So your stack will get shorter still. Calling means you are looking to get lucky to change your situation rather than looking to play poker to change your situation. If both big stacks have limped it is unlikely they have a pair, so pushing with the best hand is a better gamble than 7-1 imo, because it's odds on they will fold, or at least call with the worst of it. Also if you DID hit your set when all-in you will deffo be paid which isn't true if you just call.

We get lucky roughly 1 in 8.5 times on the flop, calling getting correct implied odds to set mine is poker as far as i am concerned. We still are only calling about 4% of our stack off pre which doesn't effect our fold equity on future hands.

When the field is moving away from you using your dwindling funds to take on an 8.5-1 gamble is maybe a luxury you can't afford. Yes, it's poker but it's not the most appropriate poker for your current situation. Do we use our short stack to chase all manner of draws because we have the correct implied odds to do so? Tournaments aren't cash. They are organic. So you must adapt your strategy to fit your circumstance imo.

Yup.

We play poker as we live our lives - we just do.

I don't like aggravation, confrontation, or fighting, I go for the easy route every time, I avoid trouble, I dodge bullets...I survive. And ditto in poker.

My money will go in when I'm ready, when it suits me, in the "softest" spot there ever was. Which will be a much better spot than this.

Who needs aggro? Find the easy road.

[Rookie (Rodney)]

This is the easiest shove in the world, EVER, in the history of poker, I have never seen an easier shove to make, so obvious of a shove, please shove.


I reckon you should push here.

[kinboshi]

Please shove here- my range here for shoving is huge.

T3

[Rookie (Rodney)]

The problem with calling in this spot is you are using your money to take on a 7-1 gamble. Your stack is getting small and taking on long shot gambles will not improve matters much of the time. So your stack will get shorter still. Calling means you are looking to get lucky to change your situation rather than looking to play poker to change your situation. If both big stacks have limped it is unlikely they have a pair, so pushing with the best hand is a better gamble than 7-1 imo, because it's odds on they will fold, or at least call with the worst of it. Also if you DID hit your set when all-in you will deffo be paid which isn't true if you just call.

We get lucky roughly 1 in 8.5 times on the flop, calling getting correct implied odds to set mine is poker as far as i am concerned. We still are only calling about 4% of our stack off pre which doesn't effect our fold equity on future hands.

When the field is moving away from you using your dwindling funds to take on an 8.5-1 gamble is maybe a luxury you can't afford. Yes, it's poker but it's not the most appropriate poker for your current situation. Do we use our short stack to chase all manner of draws because we have the correct implied odds to do so? Tournaments aren't cash. They are organic. So you must adapt your strategy to fit your circumstance imo.

Yup.

We play poker as we live our lives - we just do.

I don't like aggravation, confrontation, or fighting, I go for the easy route every time, I avoid trouble, I dodge bullets...I survive. And ditto in poker.

My money will go in when I'm ready, when it suits me, in the "softest" spot there ever was. Which will be a much better spot than this.

Who needs aggro? Find the easy road.

This is the softest spot there ever was, and ever will be. You have one player to beat. You can increase your stack by 25% by just clicking the mouse on the right button...

[kinboshi]

This is the easiest shove in the world, EVER, in the history of poker, I have never seen an easier shove to make, so obvious of a shove, please shove.


I reckon you should push here.

Get off the fence FFS and tell us what you'd do here!!

Can you see a shove here?

[tikay]

This is the easiest shove in the world, EVER, in the history of poker, I have never seen an easier shove to make, so obvious of a shove, please shove.


I reckon you should push here.

Come off the fence Rooks, are you Shoving here?

[bolt pp]

ship it all in here please, i love this spot for shoving more than i love House marathon on Five US!

But the OP never made it clear if this was Online, or Live.

I'm assuming Live, because that's my "area". I'll also assume you'd Call in this spot, & never shove, were it to be "Live".

Online, of course, it's different, because our Tourney Life is so cheap, we play 8 or 10 a night, hoping to get a nice score in one. Before we go busto.

This really should make no difference to our decision, as long as we are trying to maximise our profit and not take into account enjoying the game etc. Which is pretty much what we should be concentrating on a pha board imo.

What is the correct decision in one tourney is the correct decision no matter how many tournies we are playing. Poker is a long term game.

Of course if you are saying the calling range of our shove are different live compared to online well that does change things.

No, it should not, but it does, for the reasons explained.

I'd play it the same Live, or Online, but most Online players play much, much, faster, & much, much, less risk-averse. Does not make it right (or wrong), but there's another Tourney starting in 2 minutes, & we may well be 4-tabling anyway, so it does not matter much. In Live, If I drive 3 hours for a Single Tournament, let me tell you this - I will fight to my last breath to maximise my survival. So I ain't dancing for my entire Tourney with 3's, unless I'm pretty sure I can get my oppos to Pass - and in THAT case, yes, I can shove. But that's a fairly rare situation.

I know it's easy to say in theory but independent factors such as how long it took you to get to a comp shouldnt impact upon the way in which you play it.

Yes, but now think outside the box, & turn what you said on it's head.

Does that make calling & shoving light, Online, correct, just because we are 4 Tabling, & planning to play 12 Tourneys (ffs!) in one session, & thus our Tourney Life is very cheap?

Go on, I dare you. Look at it upside down.

I dont think that our tournement life is very cheap online in comparrison to live, i think that you play a lot more poker(post flop especially live) if you're just concentrating on a single table, you can make a lot more moves and there is a lot more information availible to us than if we're jamming 4+ multi's in one go which is why folk adhere to a generic stratergy when playing online but the volume of tourneys we can play compensates!