Squeeze play

[Graham C]

With the 3's, I'm really looking to steal the pot so far, it's a nice addition to my stack and if I can do it again or ideally double up after the steal, I'm in a much better shape than if I fold, wait for a bit then double up.  Really don't want to see the flop with 3's.

As for how low do you let your stack go, well you need to have enough to make the people you are shoving into fold.   M is all well and good, but you need to be playing with people that understand the concept, I play with people that struggle to let go of any ace, yet alone top pair no kicke and thus I tend to play quite tight but I'm missing out on opportunites.

The way I tend to play is clearly similar to Tikay, and live that works for me, but online it doesn't and mid comp I'm often low in chips and need to do something somewhere.   OK, 12 BB's isnt' the end of the world, but the average was more than double my stack, but yes, plenty of time

[Claw75]

instashovaments yo

[Graham C]

instashovaments yo

Le Knave?

I will be getting it in from now on, so to speak!

[Claw75]

instashovaments yo

Le Knave?

I will be getting it in from now on, so to speak!

come to luton tonight - not seen you in ages!  yo yo yo.

[Graham C]

Love to but can't afford it.

Plus too busy being nitty in $5 comps fml

Will come up one day though, prob in Jan.  Good luck tonight

[MANTIS01]

People may point at uber-aggressive players and say they don't want to or can't be like that. But that isn't really the point. Because those people are just at the opposite end of the scale with the same gear-change problems. If Tony reads his "We play poker as we live our lives" post again he will see nothing about the personality he describes suits big stack play. He doesn't get a big stack often and feels uncomfortable when he's there. There could be a link between the two things imo?

Personally I don't play poker as I live my life. If I did I would never win, because I don't like upsetting people. Considering winning pots upsets other people I would really fecking struggle. Poker is a game and to win you need to do what is necessary...and feel comfortable with it. Do you think Evander Holyfield goes round wanting to punch people's lights out in everyday life? He's not aggressive, but to succeed in boxing you have to be able to turn on the aggression when necessary. Just like poker. Mark Goodwin 3-handed springs to mind Tikay.

Much better not to tag yourself as anything if you can. Try and respond to situations with the appropriate answers without prejudice. Because if you do fit yourself into a pigeon hole you will really polarise your range. If Tikay pushed in this spot he would not have 3-3. We know that, and that is bad for Tony, but good for us, we can thin his range dramatically. It is the very reason Tony should push. That is great poker because it goes against the image we have and it fools us into guessing wrong. But the problem in doing it is that it goes against your instincts and so is hard. That's why poker isn't easy.

[tikay]

So much interesting stuff here, but I have a Show to record in 10 minutes, so it'll have to wait until later.

But I have to leave you, for now, with this.....

If Tikay pushed in this spot he would not have 3-3. We know that, and that is bad for Tony, but good for us, we can thin his range dramatically

I may well push with 3-3. But not in this Spot. Position is key when short-stacking. I have shocking Position here. Forget it. Forget it with better than 3-3 in this Position.

"we can thin his range dramatically". Really? Err....WRONG!

I'm looking for a particular spot here, with certain default setttings. Position being the most important. My pushing range starts with 2-3 - in the right situation & position. And I very rarely get looked up. Because I'm a Registered Nit.

Laterz, gay floaters, yo.

[tikay]

Considering winning pots upsets other people

Eh? Are you serious? Since when does losing pots upset folks - except kids, that is?

To win, or Cash, in a Tourney, you are gonna win a few Pots, & lose a few Pots.

If losing pots upsets people, they are playing the wrong game.

Does anyone seriously enter a Tourney expecting not to lose a single Pot? Avoiding getting upset, & tilting, because you lose a Pot, is a given if you are to enjoy this game. And that's the only reason to play poker, whether you be an amateur, or a Pro.

[noble1]

good points on TK's image, although depends on what sort of players you are playing.At the lower buy ins they are not good enough to notice if TK has not played a hand for 3or4 orbits imo.

With the 3's, I'm really looking to steal the pot so far, it's a nice addition to my stack and if I can do it again or ideally double up after the steal, I'm in a much better shape than if I fold, wait for a bit then double up.  Really don't want to see the flop with 3's.

As for how low do you let your stack go, well you need to have enough to make the people you are shoving into fold.   M is all well and good, but you need to be playing with people that understand the concept, I play with people that struggle to let go of any ace, yet alone top pair no kicke and thus I tend to play quite tight but I'm missing out on opportunites.

The way I tend to play is clearly similar to Tikay, and live that works for me, but online it doesn't and mid comp I'm often low in chips and need to do something somewhere.   OK, 12 BB's isnt' the end of the world, but the average was more than double my stack, but yes, plenty of time

to make players nowadays fold to a shove the accepted min is 8 to 10bb in general,also to survive another orbit when the blinds and antes are in play then shoving any 2 cards 1st in from late position should be in your poker arsenal but the ultimate goal is not to drop below 8bb imo otherwise you can forget about running deep in mtts imo.The main goal is to try and double up though when you are short stacked is it not?

[AlexMartin]

This is the easiest shove in the world, EVER, in the history of poker, I have never seen an easier shove to make, so obvious of a shove, please shove.


I reckon you should push here.

i got this far. zomg tikay if i didnt know you better id think you were levelling. passing this spot is like burning money.

poker is a great game where lots of different strategies can work. isnt it fun.

edit, just read your diary.

[MANTIS01]

Tony, you have a mild manner and have many years playing the game. So dealing with the highs and lows comes easily to you. But this is a skill, not a natural given. Don't underestimate yourself. Last time I played, the guy I c-raised thumped the table so hard my big stack toppled over into his. Made sure it took me ages to pick them up as well. He was pissed off because he wanted to win the pot and was put in a difficult situation. I was very happy he had this pain. Whether someone thumps the table or not they want to win the pot bad. I would say if losing pots doesn't upset people, they are playing the wrong game. But that's different to being emotional about it and tilting about it.

[kinboshi]

good points on TK's image, although depends on what sort of players you are playing.At the lower buy ins they are not good enough to notice if TK has not played a hand for 3or4 orbits imo.

They know about his image.  He makes sure he mentions it at least 4 times every orbit.

[Royal Flush]

ship it all in here please, i love this spot for shoving more than i love House marathon on Five US!

But the OP never made it clear if this was Online, or Live.

I'm assuming Live, because that's my "area". I'll also assume you'd Call in this spot, & never shove, were it to be "Live".

Online, of course, it's different, because our Tourney Life is so cheap, we play 8 or 10 a night, hoping to get a nice score in one. Before we go busto.

This really should make no difference to our decision, as long as we are trying to maximise our profit and not take into account enjoying the game etc. Which is pretty much what we should be concentrating on a pha board imo.

What is the correct decision in one tourney is the correct decision no matter how many tournies we are playing. Poker is a long term game.

Of course if you are saying the calling range of our shove are different live compared to online well that does change things.

No, it should not, but it does, for the reasons explained.

I'd play it the same Live, or Online, but most Online players play much, much, faster, & much, much, less risk-averse. Does not make it right (or wrong), but there's another Tourney starting in 2 minutes, & we may well be 4-tabling anyway, so it does not matter much. In Live, If I drive 3 hours for a Single Tournament, let me tell you this - I will fight to my last breath to maximise my survival. So I ain't dancing for my entire Tourney with 3's, unless I'm pretty sure I can get my oppos to Pass - and in THAT case, yes, I can shove. But that's a fairly rare situation.

omg this thread tilts me so hard!!

Right so you are not trying to maximise the profit you make from the tournament you are trying to maximise the time you spend at the table, the OP i believe was asking which was the 'better play' in respect to making the most money not spending the most time in the comp, i think so anyway.

[Royal Flush]

ship it all in here please, i love this spot for shoving more than i love House marathon on Five US!

But the OP never made it clear if this was Online, or Live.

I'm assuming Live, because that's my "area". I'll also assume you'd Call in this spot, & never shove, were it to be "Live".

Online, of course, it's different, because our Tourney Life is so cheap, we play 8 or 10 a night, hoping to get a nice score in one. Before we go busto.

This really should make no difference to our decision, as long as we are trying to maximise our profit and not take into account enjoying the game etc. Which is pretty much what we should be concentrating on a pha board imo.

What is the correct decision in one tourney is the correct decision no matter how many tournies we are playing. Poker is a long term game.

Of course if you are saying the calling range of our shove are different live compared to online well that does change things.

No, it should not, but it does, for the reasons explained.

I'd play it the same Live, or Online, but most Online players play much, much, faster, & much, much, less risk-averse. Does not make it right (or wrong), but there's another Tourney starting in 2 minutes, & we may well be 4-tabling anyway, so it does not matter much. In Live, If I drive 3 hours for a Single Tournament, let me tell you this - I will fight to my last breath to maximise my survival. So I ain't dancing for my entire Tourney with 3's, unless I'm pretty sure I can get my oppos to Pass - and in THAT case, yes, I can shove. But that's a fairly rare situation.

I know it's easy to say in theory but independent factors such as how long it took you to get to a comp shouldnt impact upon the way in which you play it.

Yes, but now think outside the box, & turn what you said on it's head.

Does that make calling & shoving light, Online, correct, just because we are 4 Tabling, & planning to play 12 Tourneys (ffs!) in one session, & thus our Tourney Life is very cheap?

Go on, I dare you. Look at it upside down.

Tourney life? Forget this concept it means nothing, you make +EV or the best -EV plays you can again the aim is to WIN MONEY not HANG AROUND.

[nirvana]

Hard to WIN MONEY,if you haven't hung around a tad - FACT