Things that piss you off!

[nirvana]

I think my point has been missed.

No problem with migration either way. We are laughed at the way we let people in and immediately get looked after.

Pretty sure Brits going to the Costas don't get a free ride on the Spanish State in the same way.......unless you know better?!

Sorry, who's getting a free ride and from whom?

Not sure what you don't understand, it was a very simple statement. If you're struggling with that one, not a lot of point joining in Kin....

What % of immigrants claim benefits ? What number of people are getting immediately looked after for showing up here and how much does it cost the country ? How many immigrants are getting this free ride of which you speak ?

Ima go out on a limb here and say you don't have a clue but you still have a narrative to share including the classic 'people laugh at us for being a soft touch'.

[arbboy]

I try not to waste too much time on people that talk down to me.

Thanks though and good luck with the cards.

I always thought that was your most time consuming part of your week adz wasting time on people who talk down to you on here.  You love it.  Who are you kidding!!!!

[arbboy]

I think my point has been missed.

No problem with migration either way. We are laughed at the way we let people in and immediately get looked after.

Pretty sure Brits going to the Costas don't get a free ride on the Spanish State in the same way.......unless you know better?!

Sorry, who's getting a free ride and from whom?

Not sure what you don't understand, it was a very simple statement. If you're struggling with that one, not a lot of point joining in Kin....

What % of immigrants claim benefits ? What number of people are getting immediately looked after for showing up here and how much does it cost the country ? How many immigrants are getting this free ride of which you speak ?

Ima go out on a limb here and say you don't have a clue but you still have a narrative to share including the classic 'people laugh at us for being a soft touch'.

The biggest benefit problem in this country is our own problem of the 'white dee' era of people who think the world owes them a living thanks to Blair spending 15 years making them think work is optional.

[Woodsey]

I think my point has been missed.

No problem with migration either way. We are laughed at the way we let people in and immediately get looked after.

Pretty sure Brits going to the Costas don't get a free ride on the Spanish State in the same way.......unless you know better?!

Sorry, who's getting a free ride and from whom?

Not sure what you don't understand, it was a very simple statement. If you're struggling with that one, not a lot of point joining in Kin....

What % of immigrants claim benefits ? What number of people are getting immediately looked after for showing up here and how much does it cost the country ? How many immigrants are getting this free ride of which you speak ?

Ima go out on a limb here and say you don't have a clue but you still have a narrative to share including the classic 'people laugh at us for being a soft touch'.

The biggest benefit problem in this country is our own problem of the 'white dee' era of people who think the world owes them a living thanks to Blair spending 15 years making them think work is optional.

Agree, but there is some crossover into the same issue, we should be getting as many Brits as possible back to work and off the dole first as far as possible, then pick and choose people from overseas that want to come here to supplement the workforce to what we require.

[kinboshi]

Incidentally, officially 140k Romanians now live and work in the UK (contrary to popular belief many are hard working and not living off the state).  There are currently a million Brits living in Spain, 329k in Ireland, 330k in France and 107k living in Germany.  As Brits we take advantage of this freedom of movement yet we aren't willing to give it to others.  If we fancy going and living next door to them then we feel as though we should be able to but if it goes the other way a significant minority don't want to allow in case the neighbours speak a language they don't understand.  It is beyond ridiculous.

This.

Should people be allowed to move to a different town within England, or heaven forbid get a job in that town and take it from someone in that town who can do that job?

What about a different county?

What about going to Wales or Scotland, our maybe England?

What about another country in the EU?

What about another country anywhere else in the world?

Where do you draw the arbitrary boundary, and why?

Never ever had a sensible answer to this question either.

[arbboy]

Incidentally, officially 140k Romanians now live and work in the UK (contrary to popular belief many are hard working and not living off the state).  There are currently a million Brits living in Spain, 329k in Ireland, 330k in France and 107k living in Germany.  As Brits we take advantage of this freedom of movement yet we aren't willing to give it to others.  If we fancy going and living next door to them then we feel as though we should be able to but if it goes the other way a significant minority don't want to allow in case the neighbours speak a language they don't understand.  It is beyond ridiculous.

This.

Should people be allowed to move to a different town within England, or heaven forbid get a job in that town and take it from someone in that town who can do that job?

What about a different county?

What about going to Wales or Scotland, our maybe England?

What about another country in the EU?

What about another country anywhere else in the world?

Where do you draw the arbitrary boundary, and why?

Never ever had a sensible answer to this question either.

You will never get a sensible answer to this question.  I am probably one of the few people on here who could tick every box on that list in my life and would be really annoyed if i couldn't have ticked every box and experienced the different countries/cultures i have because someone said 'you are not black or come from Antigua therefore you can't work in my country' i would have been pretty annoyed to missed out on the chance to live and work in Antigua for a year.

[Woodsey]

Incidentally, officially 140k Romanians now live and work in the UK (contrary to popular belief many are hard working and not living off the state).  There are currently a million Brits living in Spain, 329k in Ireland, 330k in France and 107k living in Germany.  As Brits we take advantage of this freedom of movement yet we aren't willing to give it to others.  If we fancy going and living next door to them then we feel as though we should be able to but if it goes the other way a significant minority don't want to allow in case the neighbours speak a language they don't understand.  It is beyond ridiculous.

This.

Should people be allowed to move to a different town within England, or heaven forbid get a job in that town and take it from someone in that town who can do that job?

What about a different county?

What about going to Wales or Scotland, our maybe England?

What about another country in the EU?

What about another country anywhere else in the world?

Where do you draw the arbitrary boundary, and why?

Never ever had a sensible answer to this question either.

You can apply the answer I gave about Spain to each individual country.

If the Spanish people democratically voted for tighter immigration laws to be more selective about who they allow in then I would not object to it, good luck to them, their country their rules. And nobody has the right to call them uneducated and stupid if they decided that.
[/quote]

[kinboshi]

Not sure that answers the questions I asked, but OK.

My next point is that the majority of voters in the UK didn't vote for UKIP. So there is no mandate on this immigration topic in the UK because of their so called support.

[Woodsey]

Not sure that answers the questions I asked, but OK.

My next point is that the majority of voters in the UK didn't vote for UKIP. So there is no mandate on this immigration topic in the UK because of their so called support.

UKIP won't get in anyway, but I would be highly surprised if at least the Tories didn't shift their policies in UKIPs direction a bit. Hopefully labour won't, so I reckon the Tories will pick up the lions share of the UKIP vote from the recent elections. Then we would have the EU referendum, don't know what way that would go actually, but recent support for UKIP means there's at a least  chance we could leave.

[arbboy]

Not sure that answers the questions I asked, but OK.

My next point is that the majority of voters in the UK didn't vote for UKIP. So there is no mandate on this immigration topic in the UK because of their so called support.

UKIP won't get in anyway, but I would be highly surprised if at least the Tories didn't shift their policies in UKIPs direction a bit. Hopefully labour won't, so I reckon the Tories will pick up the lions share of the UKIP vote from the recent elections. Then we would have the EU referendum, don't know what way that would go actually, but recent support for UKIP means there's at a least  chance we could leave.

Hills' 16/1 UKIPT most seats at the 2015 GE must be right up there with the worst 16/1 quote on any outcome in UK betting history.

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/most-seats

[mulhuzz]

Its possible and a major flaw in democracy that people stupid enough to make that decision without being able to claim ignorance are able to vote.

I support UKIP's immigration policies, so do you think I'm uneducated and stupid then?

Maybe you are, maybe you aren't.

However I will say that you have absolutely no clue when it comes to immigration.

And it's not even close. Please ask one of your highly educated friends to explain it to you.

If you think immigration is a net 'bad thing' for the UK then you are wrong, by any measure you care to pick. If you think the UK leaving the EU is a 'good thing' then you are catastrophically wrong. All the evidence supports the UK being a part of Europe.

But it's ok because the Daily Mail says there are monsters under the bed so you must be right.

[RED-DOG]

Sorry kukushkin88. Your post has been removed.

You can debate as much as you like but we don't allow open flaming.

[kukushkin88]

Sorry kukushkin88. Your post has been removed.

You can debate as much as you like but we don't allow open flaming.

Good morning,

Good decision, a glass too many over dinner and a row with the missus had me in the wrong frame of mind. Thank you.

[Woodsey]

Its possible and a major flaw in democracy that people stupid enough to make that decision without being able to claim ignorance are able to vote.

I support UKIP's immigration policies, so do you think I'm uneducated and stupid then?

Maybe you are, maybe you aren't.

However I will say that you have absolutely no clue when it comes to immigration.

And it's not even close. Please ask one of your highly educated friends to explain it to you.

If you think immigration is a net 'bad thing' for the UK then you are wrong, by any measure you care to pick. If you think the UK leaving the EU is a 'good thing' then you are catastrophically wrong. All the evidence supports the UK being a part of Europe.

But it's ok because the Daily Mail says there are monsters under the bed so you must be right.

You're just making random sweeping statements now because you don't agree with me, you would be better off just saying that rather than I don't have a clue. I do in fact read a lot of the stuff on immigration because it interests me, so I do have a clue, and no I don't read the Daily mail or any other newspaper for that matter.  Also, not all evidence supports the claims you are making there, but I'm guessing because you are so well read on the subject you knew that already.

Anyway that is a side issue, I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion on any of that, they are welcome to whatever opinion they want to have, the only thing I'm challenging here is that anyone who supports tighter immigration is a narrow minded, uneducated, stupid, ignorant Daily Mail reading racist and all the other assumptions that get floated about. It's a pretty ridiculous assumption to make, and I would suggest anyone who really thinks that is in fact that the one being narrow minded.

[MANTIS01]

I was quite pleased UKIP did so well. I think UK politics has become rather complacent and preachy in recent years. This was a good example of democracy in action and showed people starting to shake off the lethargy of their disengagement. Politicians have forgotten they are employed to represent the views of the people who voted for them. They aren't there to rip us off with expenses claims or surrender powers without our consent. The fact that democracy allows people to make themselves heard and jolt the other parties into action is just great. I read the other day that two thirds of benefit claimants who had been enforced to do community service had signed off. How cool, we knew people had been taking the piss for years right?

The job for politicians now is to understand the concerns of their voters, not to chastise them for having those views. Over recent years we have seen record levels of immigration, often uncontrolled, at the same time as British people (of all races) have been dealing with austerity measures which has seen the closure of their local schools, hospitals and community centres. Every animal, every person is territorial and we all share the same primary objective, which is being able to maintain a reasonable quality of life and provide for our families. If this is perceived as being threatened in any way then as people we will fight to maintain the status quo.

In reality you will see resistance/objection if people's way of life is threatened with anything, a new airport runway, rising energy prices, HS2, or indeed record immigration at a time of declining resources. Personally I think it's the looney lefties who start jumping up and down on the spot and going off on a tangent about racism who are the uneducated ones. Suppressing the views of people in this democratic system of ours is pretty dumb.