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neeko
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« Reply #126615 on: March 21, 2017, 04:30:17 PM »

I take on board what you are saying Dekka but what is different from last year for McLaren?  They were abysmal at this stage then (atrocious in terms of pace) as well and somehow managed to cobble together 75 points. 

If somebody wanted to sell McLaren at 40 points against me I'd snap their hands off.  Mind you I'd fully expect them not to score for the first few races.

The one change this year is that engine tickets are gone so they can build a totally new engine if they wanted too, which was not possible last year.
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« Reply #126616 on: March 21, 2017, 05:11:41 PM »

ATP Tennis in Miami this week. Murray and Djokovic are absent so it makes for an interesting tournament.

http://www.oddschecker.com/tennis/atp-miami/atp-miami-open/winner

Looking at the draw I certainly feel that Federer at 7/2 can be opposed. Obviously the man is very good, but going back to back at his age and with a very tough third round draw vs Del Potro I can't back him at that price.

I had a nibble on Kyrgios at 16s, he is now into 14s. I think he has a relatively easy draw in Stan's quarter and you'd hope he has had more than enough time to recover from food poisioning

Of the top players, Nishikori has the best draw, but I think his price really reflects that and he is skinny enough.

I do like Thiem at 28/1. He has a very favourable section with Lorenzi, Muller and Berdych amongst the best seeds he could have drawn.

Nadal has a quarter with Raonic and Dimitrov as well as in form Jack Sock, so I'm inclined to leave him alone here.

Of the outsiders I'm looking in the bottom quarter which is the weakest. Pouille is listed as third favourite to win that quarter and is 90/1 outright. I'm interested in a small each way bet on the young Frenchman at this price.

Thoughts?

TLDR - I'm betting on Kyrgios, Thiem and Pouille ew
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 05:16:32 PM by bergeroo » Logged
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« Reply #126617 on: March 21, 2017, 05:12:39 PM »

.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 05:16:41 PM by bergeroo » Logged
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« Reply #126618 on: March 21, 2017, 05:26:34 PM »

I take on board what you are saying Dekka but what is different from last year for McLaren?  They were abysmal at this stage then (atrocious in terms of pace) as well and somehow managed to cobble together 75 points. 

If somebody wanted to sell McLaren at 40 points against me I'd snap their hands off.  Mind you I'd fully expect them not to score for the first few races.


Mainly because last year they were in the 2nd season of running with the "Mk1" Honda engine and benefited from the lessons learned in the abysmal 2015 season.  Because they start 2017 with a brand new Honda engine (Mk2), I reckon they are in a similar position to what they were in when the relationship with Honda began in 2015.  Essentially they are starting all over again but without the optimism they had in 2015.  Also in 2015 they had a really fired up Alonso and in Jenson Button the perfect driver to help develop a new engine.  This year they've got a rookie in Vandoorne and Alonso's surely just looking to honour his contract and get out at the end of the season.  They scored just 27 points in 2015 and only beat Manor in the championship. As you say the first 4 races are probably already a write off and if Honda weren't pumping $100m a year into McLaren I wouldn't be surprised if they started looking for another engine option altogether.  Maybe they are already doing that for 2018.

The thing with McLaren is they are only really in Formula 1 to win so they are reluctant to become a customer team again using Mercedes, Renault or Ferrari engines as they know they won't be able to beat the works teams consistently enough to win championships. I guess that, along with the financial windfall, one the main reason they went with Honda in the first place.  If they do go down this route, and there are plenty of rumours around suggesting they might be considering sacking Honda off for 2018, as soon as it's announced Honda will surely slow down or stop all developments on the engine and it'll be game over for McLaren's 2017 season.

Now that Ron Dennis has finally been ousted McLaren Technology's Chief Exec is Zac Brown.  Interestingly he's also a director at Cosworth who know a thing or two about engines.  Honda are notoriously secretive and reluctant to collaborate or allow any external input and ideas into their projects.  I read somewhere that there's pressure from McLaren for Honda to adjust their thinking and work with Cosworth on the power unit because the current approach isn't working and hasn't done for the last two seasons.  I've no idea whether this'll happen or even if it's true but based on the last two years something major needs to happen for McLaren to start competing again.  I just don't see it happening in 2017.
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« Reply #126619 on: March 21, 2017, 05:41:46 PM »

Great write ups on the F1. Might watch the odd race this year.
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« Reply #126620 on: March 21, 2017, 05:48:31 PM »

ATP Tennis in Miami this week. Murray and Djokovic are absent so it makes for an interesting tournament.

http://www.oddschecker.com/tennis/atp-miami/atp-miami-open/winner

Looking at the draw I certainly feel that Federer at 7/2 can be opposed. Obviously the man is very good, but going back to back at his age and with a very tough third round draw vs Del Potro I can't back him at that price.

I had a nibble on Kyrgios at 16s, he is now into 14s. I think he has a relatively easy draw in Stan's quarter and you'd hope he has had more than enough time to recover from food poisioning

Of the top players, Nishikori has the best draw, but I think his price really reflects that and he is skinny enough.

I do like Thiem at 28/1. He has a very favourable section with Lorenzi, Muller and Berdych amongst the best seeds he could have drawn.

Nadal has a quarter with Raonic and Dimitrov as well as in form Jack Sock, so I'm inclined to leave him alone here.

Of the outsiders I'm looking in the bottom quarter which is the weakest. Pouille is listed as third favourite to win that quarter and is 90/1 outright. I'm interested in a small each way bet on the young Frenchman at this price.

Thoughts?

TLDR - I'm betting on Kyrgios, Thiem and Pouille ew

I can't see any great bets at current prices.

Kyrgios at 16s was the bet looking at the draw. 14s still worth a poke but its with joke firms. The only negative is that he pulled out of last weeks semi final with food posioning so he may (knowing him) have taken a few days off to re-couperate and not have practiced much. He is by far the most improved player this season on all the stats I keep. I also think Bautista-Agut has a big run in him this season but probably not yet given recent form and injury doubts and the draws not been too kind.

I also coudn't put people off the Thiem bet @ 28s. Always been a big fan of Dominic and the early draw has been kind to him. Just worry that hes always liable to throw in a wobble. Defo a fair price given the draw though.

Pouille is overrated. He shouldn't be ranked where he is based on his stats. Saying that 90s isn't bad, but I'll be looking to take him on where possible most of the time this season.
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« Reply #126621 on: March 21, 2017, 06:04:36 PM »


Each to their own, I guess. Count me out.


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« Reply #126622 on: March 21, 2017, 06:05:21 PM »

Posted pre season about betting shields for the cup + league, they just made the fa vase final 6-1 on aggregate. They really are an amazing team.

No prices available?

There will be soon I guess. Would bet shields at 1/3.
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« Reply #126623 on: March 21, 2017, 06:18:12 PM »

Posted pre season about betting shields for the cup + league, they just made the fa vase final 6-1 on aggregate. They really are an amazing team.

No prices available?

There will be soon I guess. Would bet shields at 1/3.

Good luck with that Pads!  They're currently best priced @ 1/5 with Skye, 2/11 Betweigh and 1/6 with PP ...

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/non-league/fa-vase/winner
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« Reply #126624 on: March 21, 2017, 06:22:07 PM »

ATP Tennis in Miami this week. Murray and Djokovic are absent so it makes for an interesting tournament.

http://www.oddschecker.com/tennis/atp-miami/atp-miami-open/winner

Looking at the draw I certainly feel that Federer at 7/2 can be opposed. Obviously the man is very good, but going back to back at his age and with a very tough third round draw vs Del Potro I can't back him at that price.

I had a nibble on Kyrgios at 16s, he is now into 14s. I think he has a relatively easy draw in Stan's quarter and you'd hope he has had more than enough time to recover from food poisioning

Of the top players, Nishikori has the best draw, but I think his price really reflects that and he is skinny enough.

I do like Thiem at 28/1. He has a very favourable section with Lorenzi, Muller and Berdych amongst the best seeds he could have drawn.

Nadal has a quarter with Raonic and Dimitrov as well as in form Jack Sock, so I'm inclined to leave him alone here.

Of the outsiders I'm looking in the bottom quarter which is the weakest. Pouille is listed as third favourite to win that quarter and is 90/1 outright. I'm interested in a small each way bet on the young Frenchman at this price.

Thoughts?

TLDR - I'm betting on Kyrgios, Thiem and Pouille ew

I can't see any great bets at current prices.

Kyrgios at 16s was the bet looking at the draw. 14s still worth a poke but its with joke firms. The only negative is that he pulled out of last weeks semi final with food posioning so he may (knowing him) have taken a few days off to re-couperate and not have practiced much. He is by far the most improved player this season on all the stats I keep. I also think Bautista-Agut has a big run in him this season but probably not yet given recent form and injury doubts and the draws not been too kind.

I also coudn't put people off the Thiem bet @ 28s. Always been a big fan of Dominic and the early draw has been kind to him. Just worry that hes always liable to throw in a wobble. Defo a fair price given the draw though.

Pouille is overrated. He shouldn't be ranked where he is based on his stats. Saying that 90s isn't bad, but I'll be looking to take him on where possible most of the time this season.

Thanks for your reply...

I'm hoping some more firms release markets for quarter betting as I got some cracking bets for the ladies quarter betting.

I'm going to swerve RBA this week coming back from an injury and with a toughish draw.

For sure Pouille isn't really a solid top 20 player, but that bottom section is so weak I have got to bet someone there and I can take my chances on a v small each way banzai at that price.

In the ladies was sad that Mladenovic started out at 50s and has already been bet in. Will be interested in the price Kasatkina starts off against Kerber should they both get that far...
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« Reply #126625 on: March 21, 2017, 06:57:36 PM »

Thanks dekka great post.  Let's hope it's a good season
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« Reply #126626 on: March 21, 2017, 08:50:52 PM »


I'm biased 'cos I knew him as a kid but I think Jolyon Palmer could surprise a few people and outperform his more experienced team mate Hulkenberg so I'll no doubt do my conkers this year backing JP in match bets v The Hulk race after race.  


I felt a bit of a cheat after posting that long & waffly F1 post because I didn't put a solid recommendation up but I think I've found a value spot that eliminates any risk of whether the new Renault chassis and engine combo is actually competitive with the rest of the grid.  Here's the reasoning behind my recommendation:

I mentioned that I thought Jolyon Palmer might give his new team mate Nico Hulkenberg a run for his money so I've been taking a look at the 2017 season driver match markets.

General opinion is that Hulk is the better driver, he may well be and the bookies make him a big favourite.  Hulkenbergs's certainly got bags more experience in F1 than Palmer but as I said in the other post Palmer has a history of improving with each season in every category he's raced in.

2009 was Palmer's debut season at what I would consider to be the elite level of motorsport where he raced in the the FIA Formula 2 series and he came 22nd, he was a revelation in 2010 and he ended up finishing 2nd in the championship, winning 5 of the 18 races.

After Formula 2 Palmer moved to GP2 (one rung below F1) and his championship finishing positions during his four year GP2 career were as follows:

2011 - 28th
2012 - 11th
2013 - 7th
2014 - 1st

As I said in the original post Palmer dominated the championship in 2014 and won the title with three races to spare achieving an all-time points record in the series.  That's no mean feat when you consider some of the drivers that have been in GP2 over the years.  Other former GP2 champions include Rosberg, Hamilton. Hulkenberg and Grosjean.  

2017 is Palmer's 2nd full season in F1 so we should expect him to improve from last year and he'll need to if he's to score more points than Hulkenberg.  It's worth remembering that he spent 2015 as the reserve driver with Lotus (who evolved into the current Renault team) and gained a lot of F1 experience driving the Lotus at tests and in practice sessions at various race weekends. In short he's had quite a bit more than one full year in the sport.

Last year in Palmer's debut F1 season he was up against a tough team mate in Kevin Magnussen widely regarded as one of the top young drivers around who'd previously had two years experience at McLaren where he performed well alongside Jenson Button.  In 2016 Magnussen definitely had a big edge over Palmer in the early races but instead of crumbling under the immense pressure he was under from pundits and public opinion Palmer found his feet in F1 and things were much closer between the two in mid-season.  

Towards the end of the 2016 season it was widely acknowledged that the pair were competing for one available seat in the car for this year and Palmer surprised & impressed plenty of people by finishing the season stronger than Magnussen and winning the battle.  It was clear that Palmer had proved a few doubters wrong and was a solid, quick racer who fully deserved his place in F1 for this season.  I've no doubt he'll continue improving throughout 2017 and he won't be rattled by having Hulkenberg as a team mate at all even if Hulkenberg starts the season stronger.

Meanwhile Hulkenberg's joined Renault from Force India where he's spent the last three seasons alongside Sergio Perez.  In all three years Hulkenberg's managed to outqualify Perez but for the last two seasons Perez has had a better record in the races, notably scoring more points and having better overall finishing positions than Hulkenberg.  Presumably this is why Force India have kept Perez and replaced Hulkenberg with Esteban Ocon for the 2017 season.  The good news for Hulk is that he won't have to drive a pink Force India this year.

Before joining Force India Hulkenberg's career in F1 was as follows:

2010 was Hulkenberg's debut season in F1 and he raced at Williams alongside the experienced Rubens Barichello. He surprised everyone in motorsport when he secured Williams first pole position for 5 years in Brazil but Barrichello had the edge over him in points scored, race finishing positions and qualifying.  Despite a relatively promising start to Hulk's F1 career Williams decided to keep Barrichello on for 2011 and Hulkenberg was replaced by Pastor Maldonado which is something no F1 driver wants on their cv!  Hulkenberg spent 2011 as Force India's test driver.

Hulkenberg returned to the grid in 2012 alongside Paul Di Resta at Force India.  The pair were very evenly matched throughout the season with and dead-heated in qualifying by both coming out on top in 10 races.  Hulkenberg narrowly outscored Di Resta in the points battle and he finished ahead of Di Resta in 12 races but behind him in 9.  Clearly there wasn't much between the two of them.  At this stage of his career I'd rate Palmer as a better all round driver than Di Resta and certainly not considerably worse.

In 2013 Hulkenberg joined Sauber and he blew away his rookie team mate Esteban Guitierrez who spent last season being convincingly outperformed by Grosjean in the Haas team and he's now off to try his luck in Formula E.

In short, other that when alongside Guiterrez who was a rookie at the time Hulkenberg's record against his various "middle of the grid" team mates isn't particularly remarkable and certainly not good enough in my opinion to make him a 1/8 favourite to outperform Palmer this year which is where PP have him before the season starts!

One problem with a match bet between the two Renault drivers is that points for all teams other than the big four of Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull and Williams will be really hard to come by.  Renault, Force India, Haas, Toro Rosso and maybe even McLaren will be spending most weekends battling to finish 9th and 10th securing 2pts or 1pt in the process.  It's unrealistic to think either of the Renault drivers will score points on a regular basis so this is likely to be a low scoring heat.  One freak result for either driver such as 10pts for a 5th place in a crash riddled Monaco or a rain affected race at any circuit would make it hard for the other driver to make up the difference.

Having said all of the above I do make Hulkenberg the favourite to beat Palmer over the season but I think it's closer than most people and the bookies seem to think. I'd be happy to be on Palmer to win this match bet at 2/1 which is where he's generally priced.  I'd have recommended the bet for the thread with Shy who have Palmer at 5/2 which I think's a bit of value but PP are well out of line at 7/2!  I can't get on with PP but my kids can so they've both invested on my behalf this afternoon.  I know the thread can't get on with PP either but if someone can help out I think this is a good spot which also gives a nice season long sweat.

Recommended Bet: 2017 Formula 1 season matched bet.  Jolyon Palmer to beat Nico Hulkenberg (stake should probably be up to you guys - £20?) @ 7/2 with PP

Here's the link to the PP matched bet page, couldn't see them on Oddschecker:

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/motor-racing/formula-1?ev_oc_grp_ids=1183321





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« Reply #126627 on: March 21, 2017, 09:16:41 PM »


I'm biased 'cos I knew him as a kid but I think Jolyon Palmer could surprise a few people and outperform his more experienced team mate Hulkenberg so I'll no doubt do my conkers this year backing JP in match bets v The Hulk race after race.  


I felt a bit of a cheat after posting that long & waffly F1 post because I didn't put a solid recommendation up but I think I've found a value spot that eliminates any risk of whether the new Renault chassis and engine combo is actually competitive with the rest of the grid.  Here's the reasoning behind my recommendation:

I mentioned that I thought Jolyon Palmer might give his new team mate Nico Hulkenberg a run for his money so I've been taking a look at the 2017 season driver match markets.

General opinion is that Hulk is the better driver, he may well be and the bookies make him a big favourite.  Hulkenbergs's certainly got bags more experience in F1 than Palmer but as I said in the other post Palmer has a history of improving with each season in every category he's raced in.

2009 was Palmer's debut season at what I would consider to be the elite level of motorsport where he raced in the the FIA Formula 2 series and he came 22nd, he was a revelation in 2010 and he ended up finishing 2nd in the championship, winning 5 of the 18 races.

After Formula 2 Palmer moved to GP2 (one rung below F1) and his championship finishing positions during his four year GP2 career were as follows:

2011 - 28th
2012 - 11th
2013 - 7th
2014 - 1st

As I said in the original post Palmer dominated the championship in 2014 and won the title with three races to spare achieving an all-time points record in the series.  That's no mean feat when you consider some of the drivers that have been in GP2 over the years.  Other former GP2 champions include Rosberg, Hamilton. Hulkenberg and Grosjean.  

2017 is Palmer's 2nd full season in F1 so we should expect him to improve from last year and he'll need to if he's to score more points than Hulkenberg.  It's worth remembering that he spent 2015 as the reserve driver with Lotus (who evolved into the current Renault team) and gained a lot of F1 experience driving the Lotus at tests and in practice sessions at various race weekends. In short he's had quite a bit more than one full year in the sport.

Last year in Palmer's debut F1 season he was up against a tough team mate in Kevin Magnussen widely regarded as one of the top young drivers around who'd previously had two years experience at McLaren where he performed well alongside Jenson Button.  In 2016 Magnussen definitely had a big edge over Palmer in the early races but instead of crumbling under the immense pressure he was under from pundits and public opinion Palmer found his feet in F1 and things were much closer between the two in mid-season.  

Towards the end of the 2016 season it was widely acknowledged that the pair were competing for one available seat in the car for this year and Palmer surprised & impressed plenty of people by finishing the season stronger than Magnussen and winning the battle.  It was clear that Palmer had proved a few doubters wrong and was a solid, quick racer who fully deserved his place in F1 for this season.  I've no doubt he'll continue improving throughout 2017 and he won't be rattled by having Hulkenberg as a team mate at all even if Hulkenberg starts the season stronger.

Meanwhile Hulkenberg's joined Renault from Force India where he's spent the last three seasons alongside Sergio Perez.  In all three years Hulkenberg's managed to outqualify Perez but for the last two seasons Perez has had a better record in the races, notably scoring more points and having better overall finishing positions than Hulkenberg.  Presumably this is why Force India have kept Perez and replaced Hulkenberg with Esteban Ocon for the 2017 season.  The good news for Hulk is that he won't have to drive a pink Force India this year.

Before joining Force India Hulkenberg's career in F1 was as follows:

2010 was Hulkenberg's debut season in F1 and he raced at Williams alongside the experienced Rubens Barichello. He surprised everyone in motorsport when he secured Williams first pole position for 5 years in Brazil but Barrichello had the edge over him in points scored, race finishing positions and qualifying.  Despite a relatively promising start to Hulk's F1 career Williams decided to keep Barrichello on for 2011 and Hulkenberg was replaced by Pastor Maldonado which is something no F1 driver wants on their cv!  Hulkenberg spent 2011 as Force India's test driver.

Hulkenberg returned to the grid in 2012 alongside Paul Di Resta at Force India.  The pair were very evenly matched throughout the season with and dead-heated in qualifying by both coming out on top in 10 races.  Hulkenberg narrowly outscored Di Resta in the points battle and he finished ahead of Di Resta in 12 races but behind him in 9.  Clearly there wasn't much between the two of them.  At this stage of his career I'd rate Palmer as a better all round driver than Di Resta and certainly not considerably worse.

In 2013 Hulkenberg joined Sauber and he blew away his rookie team mate Esteban Guitierrez who spent last season being convincingly outperformed by Grosjean in the Haas team and he's now off to try his luck in Formula E.

In short, other that when alongside Guiterrez who was a rookie at the time Hulkenberg's record against his various "middle of the grid" team mates isn't particularly remarkable and certainly not good enough in my opinion to make him a 1/8 favourite to outperform Palmer this year which is where PP have him before the season starts!

One problem with a match bet between the two Renault drivers is that points for all teams other than the big four of Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull and Williams will be really hard to come by.  Renault, Force India, Haas, Toro Rosso and maybe even McLaren will be spending most weekends battling to finish 9th and 10th securing 2pts or 1pt in the process.  It's unrealistic to think either of the Renault drivers will score points on a regular basis so this is likely to be a low scoring heat.  One freak result for either driver such as 10pts for a 5th place in a crash riddled Monaco or a rain affected race at any circuit would make it hard for the other driver to make up the difference.

Having said all of the above I do make Hulkenberg the favourite to beat Palmer over the season but I think it's closer than most people and the bookies seem to think. I'd be happy to be on Palmer to win this match bet at 2/1 which is where he's generally priced.  I'd have recommended the bet for the thread with Shy who have Palmer at 5/2 which I think's a bit of value but PP are well out of line at 7/2!  I can't get on with PP but my kids can so they've both invested on my behalf this afternoon.  I know the thread can't get on with PP either but if someone can help out I think this is a good spot which also gives a nice season long sweat.

Recommended Bet: 2017 Formula 1 season matched bet.  Jolyon Palmer to beat Nico Hulkenberg (stake should probably be up to you guys - £20?) @ 7/2 with PP

Here's the link to the PP matched bet page, couldn't see them on Oddschecker:

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/motor-racing/formula-1?ev_oc_grp_ids=1183321







Loving your posts.  Unfortunately can't help with PP, as limitted to £6.50. 
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Most of the bets placed so far seem more like hopeful punts rather than value spots
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« Reply #126628 on: March 21, 2017, 09:19:50 PM »

I got him £19.50 on, so will give Fred a 50pence freeroll for simplicity.

£20 @ 7/2
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« Reply #126629 on: March 21, 2017, 09:23:04 PM »


I'm biased 'cos I knew him as a kid but I think Jolyon Palmer could surprise a few people and outperform his more experienced team mate Hulkenberg so I'll no doubt do my conkers this year backing JP in match bets v The Hulk race after race.  


I felt a bit of a cheat after posting that long & waffly F1 post because I didn't put a solid recommendation up but I think I've found a value spot that eliminates any risk of whether the new Renault chassis and engine combo is actually competitive with the rest of the grid.  Here's the reasoning behind my recommendation:

BLAH BLAH BLAH


Loving your posts.  Unfortunately can't help with PP, as limitted to £6.50. 

Thanks Doobs, I'm going to try and make them more concise in the future, I've clearly got too much time on my hands this week
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