Tips for Tikay

[tikay]

I keep seeing the expression "bad each way money" or similar, can someone explain exactly what that means, please?

Same question a "filthy bet".

TY.

[bobby1]

I keep seeing the expression "bad each way money" or similar, can someone explain exactly what that means, please?

Same question a "filthy bet".

TY.

bad each way is betting each way in races where the place book is in the punters favour. For example if you bet a race as follows

4/5
5/1
6/1
33
33
33
33
33
50
50
50
50

at a 1/5 th odds a place the first three you are getting evens the 5/1 shot to be in the first three on the place part, you are getting 6/5 the place part of the 6/1 chance. Obv in that book they are considerably shorter to place than those rigid place terms that bookmakers allow you to bet at.

Filthy each way is another term for those races, if you did mean filthy ew.

[The Camel]

Agree the internet has made everyone sharper to a degree.  15 or so years ago I spent a few years working in shops for Ladbrokes when I was a student.  I worked in their most profitable shop (Wardour Street under the WAG club in Chinatown fwiw).  In three years there I think I can remember seeing two puters that had even half a clue.  You never saw bad each way money and it was rare to see sharp money at all.  Now everyone is at it.  It is kinda like what I was saying about Tony Bloom in the other thread.  He was doing stuff ten years ago that I only fully understood the importance of six or seven years later and I was massively ahead of the game.  It is only in the 2006 world cup that Ladbrokes priced England 7/1 to beat Croatia 1-0 when the home price was 1/2 and goals were 2 with under favourite at 4/5.  No bookie would come up with that price now.

I remember when they bookies started pricing up first goalscorer in the early 90s.

Always used to be about 6/1 the field.

There was a Ladbrokes booth at Loftus Road, and they regularly ran out of money when Sir Les netted first at 6/1 or 11/2.

[bobby1]

Those days when firms put out their own NFL hcaps and totals instead of just copying the US lines as they do now was awesome too. It's less than ten years ago you could bet -2 1/2 one side or +4 1/2 the other and regularly get 3 point middles on the totals too.

[adnmdv]

Reading those bad pricing stories make me sigh I wasn't able to get into betting a few years earlier! I've already seen myself markets get loads harder, those past days sound like just free money times though. Supposedly firms were also doing 1/2 odds ew goalscorers for a while as well, which they obviously lost loads at! It's been mentioned in other threads before, but I wonder (not knowing myself how it was 'back then') how much Betfair was a game-changer, in terms of showing bookies clearly when and where their own prices were horribly off (not that it stops them occasionally these days...)

[bobby1]

Reading those bad pricing stories make me sigh I wasn't able to get into betting a few years earlier! I've already seen myself markets get loads harder, those past days sound like just free money times though. Supposedly firms were also doing 1/2 odds ew goalscorers for a while as well, which they obviously lost loads at! It's been mentioned in other threads before, but I wonder (not knowing myself how it was 'back then') how much Betfair was a game-changer, in terms of showing bookies clearly when and where their own prices were horribly off (not that it stops them occasionally these days...)

it was abs huge, we made some rickets in those days for sure, mainly coz there were too few people making too many markets. One of the other major changes was that a lot of the firms started getting the same tissue prices too, so even if you made a balls of it you kinda knew where the other firms would be before you put a price out, that has really just become the norm these days now, so little variation on most things these days.

My fav rick ( not a pricing one) was the guy that did some first goalscorers priced up the first live Spanish game of the season about 10 years ago, the Hills spread guys would ring us up and take the fixed odds prices and convert them into spread prices. I took a call from one of the spread guys who was half laughing and asked my if we were happy with the price of one guy in the first goalscorer list. I asked the guy that did them if he was happy with it and he ruffled a few sheets of paper and said 'yes. 14/1 is fine'

I told the guy on the phone it was fine and he said 'it looks a bit short to me considering he died in a car crash in the summer' and we had already taken bets on him too!

[Jamier-Host]

I keep seeing the expression "bad each way money" or similar, can someone explain exactly what that means, please?

Same question a "filthy bet".

TY.

Should ask Nico on this one - had a legendary cash cow thread all about it 

[The Camel]

Those days when firms put out their own NFL hcaps and totals instead of just copying the US lines as they do now was awesome too. It's less than ten years ago you could bet -2 1/2 one side or +4 1/2 the other and regularly get 3 point middles on the totals too.

When I worked at Blue Squirrel my boss (I'm sure you know him) refused to let me price up NFL matches -3 or -4 because he hated the idea of giving punters their money back.

[Jamier-Host]

Reading those bad pricing stories make me sigh I wasn't able to get into betting a few years earlier! I've already seen myself markets get loads harder, those past days sound like just free money times though. Supposedly firms were also doing 1/2 odds ew goalscorers for a while as well, which they obviously lost loads at! It's been mentioned in other threads before, but I wonder (not knowing myself how it was 'back then') how much Betfair was a game-changer, in terms of showing bookies clearly when and where their own prices were horribly off (not that it stops them occasionally these days...)

it was abs huge, we made some rickets in those days for sure, mainly coz there were too few people making too many markets. One of the other major changes was that a lot of the firms started getting the same tissue prices too, so even if you made a balls of it you kinda knew where the other firms would be before you put a price out, that has really just become the norm these days now, so little variation on most things these days.

My fav rick ( not a pricing one) was the guy that did some first goalscorers priced up the first live Spanish game of the season about 10 years ago, the Hills spread guys would ring us up and take the fixed odds prices and convert them into spread prices. I took a call from one of the spread guys who was half laughing and asked my if we were happy with the price of one guy in the first goalscorer list. I asked the guy that did them if he was happy with it and he ruffled a few sheets of paper and said 'yes. 14/1 is fine'

I told the guy on the phone it was fine and he said 'it looks a bit short to me considering he died in a car crash in the summer' and we had already taken bets on him too!

I did something similar for Blue Square.  Knocked up a "past champions" betting group for the WSOP ME 4 or 5 years ago and someone (might have been Keith) kindly let me know I'd quoted a guy who had long joined the poker gods....

[bobby1]

was it Stevie Keith?

I know it was the same with us too, tho we spent about two seasons as a team betting minus 2 1/2 one side and plus 3 1/2 or better the other where we could, or minus 6 1/2 and plus 7 1/2 or bigger and making a nice profit in the long run.

[The Camel]

was it Stevie?

I know it was the same with us too, tho we spent about two seasons as a team betting minus 2 1/2 one side and plus 3 1/2 or better the other where we could, or minus 6 1/2 and plus 7 1/2 or bigger and making a nice profit in the long run.

Yup.

He's head of trading at NZ TAB last I heard.

And probably still hates giving punters their money back.

[The Camel]

Reading those bad pricing stories make me sigh I wasn't able to get into betting a few years earlier! I've already seen myself markets get loads harder, those past days sound like just free money times though. Supposedly firms were also doing 1/2 odds ew goalscorers for a while as well, which they obviously lost loads at! It's been mentioned in other threads before, but I wonder (not knowing myself how it was 'back then') how much Betfair was a game-changer, in terms of showing bookies clearly when and where their own prices were horribly off (not that it stops them occasionally these days...)

Betfair was absolutely the worst thing that happened to professional punters ever.

Could make a comfortable living paying 10% tax on all bets back then.

And never had an account closed.

Now I make a marginal living, and every bookmaker in the world wants to close me down.

[redarmi]

Your point about too few people doing markets is a good one.  At VC we used to just basically price things on demand basically as there were only 14 of us in the office and we had to answer the phones, make trading decisions, price events and settle the bets too.  Nobody in the office had the first idea about sports like Formula One and we often used price from the Post on races without having any idea qualifying had taken place!!!!!  You soon learn though and I wouldn't have changed it for the world because we were a step ahead of the punters as often as we were behind them.  Was thinking about the First Goalscorer markets the other night when RVP was 9/4 but buy some books on punting from the time and you will see that the general expert consensus was that all of those markets were for mugs and most sharp punters just didn't look at them at all.  My partner in crime at the moment was also my manager in that first Ladbrokes shop and he actually did twig onto the fact the FGS;s were too big but instead of just betting the singles he got greedy and went for the jackpot multiples (Lucky 15's with 3x odds tbf).  He hit 3 a few times but never actually managed to have it off.

[bobby1]

was it Stevie?

I know it was the same with us too, tho we spent about two seasons as a team betting minus 2 1/2 one side and plus 3 1/2 or better the other where we could, or minus 6 1/2 and plus 7 1/2 or bigger and making a nice profit in the long run.

Yup.

He's head of trading at NZ TAB last I heard.

And probably still hates giving punters their money back.

We might have missed the boat now too Keith, I almost went to work for the jockey club about 7-8 years ago when they expanded their football product. The guy that I worked with that did take the plunge is now in charge of the footy dept and a couple of guys I recommended to him are getting chunks out there too. The very cleverly had them on a loyalty bonus, which matured every 3 years. They then got them on another 3 year loyalty bonus with each new contract.

mbn

[The Camel]

was it Stevie?

I know it was the same with us too, tho we spent about two seasons as a team betting minus 2 1/2 one side and plus 3 1/2 or better the other where we could, or minus 6 1/2 and plus 7 1/2 or bigger and making a nice profit in the long run.

Yup.

He's head of trading at NZ TAB last I heard.

And probably still hates giving punters their money back.

We might have missed the boat now too Keith, I almost went to work for the jockey club about 7-8 years ago when they expanded their football product. The guy that I worked with that did take the plunge is now in charge of the footy dept and a couple of guys I recommended to him are getting chunks out there too. The very cleverly had them on a loyalty bonus, which matured every 3 years. They then got them on another 3 year loyalty bonus with each new contract.

mbn

Isn't enough money in the world that would entice me to live in Hong Kong.

New Zealand however, is a different matter!