Independence Referendum

[Kmac84]

Those comments from Sillars are imo anger at what he see been done.  This referendum was about the will of the Scottish people.  Neo-Liberals should not have been part of it and the PM calling in favours from his friends to put out scare stories backed up by State Media is a disgrace. 

There is much anger in Scotland just now, and there will be more anger post the referendum if its a no vote and we see further cuts and retention of powers at Westminister. 

Why aren't neo liberals allowed to be part of it?  Do you think only Scottish people loyal to the supreme leader should be allowed to vote?

Why does adding neo in front of everything give me bad connotations? Is neo always bad, I thought it just meant new

Probably because it is bad.  The common good and the needs of the people should come before privatisation and deregulation. 

this is why left wing governments fail. too many demands for money, not enough deregulation

Is it? Or is it because of interference from neoliberals?

At heart I'm a socialist, but I see that there are faults.  We can learn from the mistakes of the past but we can also create a more socially just and egaliterian society as an independent nation that will never happen under Westminister rule. 

This is a class war.

[TightEnd]

Those comments from Sillars are imo anger at what he see been done.  This referendum was about the will of the Scottish people.  Neo-Liberals should not have been part of it and the PM calling in favours from his friends to put out scare stories backed up by State Media is a disgrace. 

There is much anger in Scotland just now, and there will be more anger post the referendum if its a no vote and we see further cuts and retention of powers at Westminister. 

Why aren't neo liberals allowed to be part of it?  Do you think only Scottish people loyal to the supreme leader should be allowed to vote?

Why does adding neo in front of everything give me bad connotations? Is neo always bad, I thought it just meant new

Probably because it is bad.  The common good and the needs of the people should come before privatisation and deregulation. 

this is why left wing governments fail. too many demands for money, not enough deregulation

Is it? Or is it because of interference from neoliberals?

At heart I'm a socialist, but I see that there are faults.  We can learn from the mistakes of the past but we can also create a more socially just and egaliterian society as an independent nation that will never happen under Westminister rule. 

This is a class war.

A class war?

for you maybe (an evangelical proponent of an extreme political view) but come on, its not for most Scottish voters

[Jon MW]

kmac i admire your relentless campaiging.  Can i ask you a question?  How much worse off financially would you be happy Scotland to become under independence before you changed to voting No?

I would never vote no.  I believe in Sovereignty.  Scotland should, like England, Wales and Northern Ireland be independent.  We have no need for Metropolitan Millionaire public schoolboys tellingus how to run our country.  

What about Cornwall, Yorkshire, East Anglia, Brittany, Burgundy or any other of the thousands of regions within Europe which have a distinct regional identity?

My initial feelings were that Scotland should be independent because of the basic principle of self-rule - but when you look into European history you see the fact that Scotland (or any other region) is thought of as a distinct entity is largely down to chance. With that in mind any random sub-division or coalition of areas should really just be down to the demand for it and, crucially, the economic benefit derived from it.

Scotland is a nation not a region.  However, I would be willing to explore more self governance for regional areas.  

Region and Nation are not mutually exclusive

Every one of those regions has a claim for nationhood - like I suggested, whether you are currently considered a nation state or not is largely down to chance

[Kmac84]

kmac i admire your relentless campaiging.  Can i ask you a question?  How much worse off financially would you be happy Scotland to become under independence before you changed to voting No?

I would never vote no.  I believe in Sovereignty.  Scotland should, like England, Wales and Northern Ireland be independent.  We have no need for Metropolitan Millionaire public schoolboys tellingus how to run our country.  

What about Cornwall, Yorkshire, East Anglia, Brittany, Burgundy or any other of the thousands of regions within Europe which have a distinct regional identity?

My initial feelings were that Scotland should be independent because of the basic principle of self-rule - but when you look into European history you see the fact that Scotland (or any other region) is thought of as a distinct entity is largely down to chance. With that in mind any random sub-division or coalition of areas should really just be down to the demand for it and, crucially, the economic benefit derived from it.

Several of my family in aberdeen would like Aberdeen to become independent from the rest of Scotland.

If they are anything like you that's not a surprise.

[Kmac84]

Those comments from Sillars are imo anger at what he see been done.  This referendum was about the will of the Scottish people.  Neo-Liberals should not have been part of it and the PM calling in favours from his friends to put out scare stories backed up by State Media is a disgrace. 

There is much anger in Scotland just now, and there will be more anger post the referendum if its a no vote and we see further cuts and retention of powers at Westminister. 

Why aren't neo liberals allowed to be part of it?  Do you think only Scottish people loyal to the supreme leader should be allowed to vote?

Why does adding neo in front of everything give me bad connotations? Is neo always bad, I thought it just meant new

Probably because it is bad.  The common good and the needs of the people should come before privatisation and deregulation. 

this is why left wing governments fail. too many demands for money, not enough deregulation

Is it? Or is it because of interference from neoliberals?

At heart I'm a socialist, but I see that there are faults.  We can learn from the mistakes of the past but we can also create a more socially just and egaliterian society as an independent nation that will never happen under Westminister rule. 

This is a class war.

A class war?

for you maybe (an evangelical proponent of an extreme political view) but come on, its not for most Scottish voters

And you say this because you are in touch with what Scottish voters think from middle England?

[TightEnd]

Those comments from Sillars are imo anger at what he see been done.  This referendum was about the will of the Scottish people.  Neo-Liberals should not have been part of it and the PM calling in favours from his friends to put out scare stories backed up by State Media is a disgrace. 

There is much anger in Scotland just now, and there will be more anger post the referendum if its a no vote and we see further cuts and retention of powers at Westminister. 

Why aren't neo liberals allowed to be part of it?  Do you think only Scottish people loyal to the supreme leader should be allowed to vote?

Why does adding neo in front of everything give me bad connotations? Is neo always bad, I thought it just meant new

Probably because it is bad.  The common good and the needs of the people should come before privatisation and deregulation. 

this is why left wing governments fail. too many demands for money, not enough deregulation

Is it? Or is it because of interference from neoliberals?

At heart I'm a socialist, but I see that there are faults.  We can learn from the mistakes of the past but we can also create a more socially just and egaliterian society as an independent nation that will never happen under Westminister rule. 

This is a class war.

A class war?

for you maybe (an evangelical proponent of an extreme political view) but come on, its not for most Scottish voters

And you say this because you are in touch with what Scottish voters think from middle England?

no, but i don't think you can assume your view overlays to a Scottish population as a whole, which you seem to do

You are an extreme view, i think, as very very left wing thoughts are these days in modern western societies

[arbboy]

kmac i admire your relentless campaiging.  Can i ask you a question?  How much worse off financially would you be happy Scotland to become under independence before you changed to voting No?

I would never vote no.  I believe in Sovereignty.  Scotland should, like England, Wales and Northern Ireland be independent.  We have no need for Metropolitan Millionaire public schoolboys tellingus how to run our country.  

What about Cornwall, Yorkshire, East Anglia, Brittany, Burgundy or any other of the thousands of regions within Europe which have a distinct regional identity?

My initial feelings were that Scotland should be independent because of the basic principle of self-rule - but when you look into European history you see the fact that Scotland (or any other region) is thought of as a distinct entity is largely down to chance. With that in mind any random sub-division or coalition of areas should really just be down to the demand for it and, crucially, the economic benefit derived from it.

Several of my family in aberdeen would like Aberdeen to become independent from the rest of Scotland.

If they are anything like you that's not a surprise.

Like me?  Hard working, personally responsible for my actions, like to control my own path/spend the majority of my own money rather than the govt doing it for me via excessive taxation and not dictated to by a nanny state.  I remember when the vast majority of people aspired to these beliefs.  How 'Benefit Britain' has changed!

[OverTheBorder]

Those comments from Sillars are imo anger at what he see been done.  This referendum was about the will of the Scottish people.  Neo-Liberals should not have been part of it and the PM calling in favours from his friends to put out scare stories backed up by State Media is a disgrace. 

There is much anger in Scotland just now, and there will be more anger post the referendum if its a no vote and we see further cuts and retention of powers at Westminister. 

Why aren't neo liberals allowed to be part of it?  Do you think only Scottish people loyal to the supreme leader should be allowed to vote?

Why does adding neo in front of everything give me bad connotations? Is neo always bad, I thought it just meant new

Probably because it is bad.  The common good and the needs of the people should come before privatisation and deregulation. 

this is why left wing governments fail. too many demands for money, not enough deregulation

Is it? Or is it because of interference from neoliberals?

At heart I'm a socialist, but I see that there are faults.  We can learn from the mistakes of the past but we can also create a more socially just and egaliterian society as an independent nation that will never happen under Westminister rule. 

This is a class war.

A class war?

for you maybe (an evangelical proponent of an extreme political view) but come on, its not for most Scottish voters

And you say this because you are in touch with what Scottish voters think from middle England?

no, but i don't think you can assume your view overlays to a Scottish population as a whole, which you seem to do

You are an extreme view, i think, as very very left wing thoughts are these days in modern western societies

I can imagine he hides his views at most door steps. Reading posts on this thread by KMAC are a strong message to people. He gets further left as the days go on. Reading posts for last few weeks only now are you seeing a true vision.

I worry that an independent Scotland could be infiltrated by people with extremely polar views. This demonstrates why as they are softened when it suits them. Hopefully in a yes vote these people will be kept as far away from decision making as physically possible.

[Kmac84]

My tuppence Worth.
http://www.commentisntfree.com/an-open-letter-to-my-friends-in-labour/

Fantastic piece of writing and I can resonate with much of it, many of that guys reasons for leaving the Labour Party are why I left and stopped voting Labour. 

[AndrewT]

This is a class war.

It's odd - I could have sworn it was about self-determination, a freedom for people to be governed by an administration of their own choosing, to make their own decisions about their lives rather than having them imposed from 300 miles away.

But no, apparently it's a class war.

[Kmac84]

Those comments from Sillars are imo anger at what he see been done.  This referendum was about the will of the Scottish people.  Neo-Liberals should not have been part of it and the PM calling in favours from his friends to put out scare stories backed up by State Media is a disgrace. 

There is much anger in Scotland just now, and there will be more anger post the referendum if its a no vote and we see further cuts and retention of powers at Westminister. 

Why aren't neo liberals allowed to be part of it?  Do you think only Scottish people loyal to the supreme leader should be allowed to vote?

Why does adding neo in front of everything give me bad connotations? Is neo always bad, I thought it just meant new

Probably because it is bad.  The common good and the needs of the people should come before privatisation and deregulation. 

this is why left wing governments fail. too many demands for money, not enough deregulation

Is it? Or is it because of interference from neoliberals?

At heart I'm a socialist, but I see that there are faults.  We can learn from the mistakes of the past but we can also create a more socially just and egaliterian society as an independent nation that will never happen under Westminister rule. 

This is a class war.

A class war?

for you maybe (an evangelical proponent of an extreme political view) but come on, its not for most Scottish voters

And you say this because you are in touch with what Scottish voters think from middle England?

no, but i don't think you can assume your view overlays to a Scottish population as a whole, which you seem to do

You are an extreme view, i think, as very very left wing thoughts are these days in modern western societies

I can imagine he hides his views at most door steps. Reading posts on this thread by KMAC are a strong message to people. He gets further left as the days go on. Reading posts for last few weeks only now are you seeing a true vision.

I worry that an independent Scotland could be infiltrated by people with extremely polar views. This demonstrates why as they are softened when it suits them. Hopefully in a yes vote these people will be kept as far away from decision making as physically possible.

And hopefully in a post yes Scotland people like you are no longer here.  I bet you like to think of yourself as one of those "proud patriotic Scots" that are full of self loathing and don't think you can manage without the guiding hand of Westminister.  Its stomach churning.  

[Kmac84]

This is a class war.

It's odd - I could have sworn it was about self-determination, a freedom for people to be governed by an administration of their own choosing, to make their own decisions about their lives rather than having them imposed from 300 miles away.

But no, apparently it's a class war.

And all of that falls under class for me, with self determination the people of Scotland take control of their own destiny and give two fingers to the pampered public schoolboys who aren't in our class. 

[TightEnd]

Utter madness.

[arbboy]

Those comments from Sillars are imo anger at what he see been done.  This referendum was about the will of the Scottish people.  Neo-Liberals should not have been part of it and the PM calling in favours from his friends to put out scare stories backed up by State Media is a disgrace. 

There is much anger in Scotland just now, and there will be more anger post the referendum if its a no vote and we see further cuts and retention of powers at Westminister. 

Why aren't neo liberals allowed to be part of it?  Do you think only Scottish people loyal to the supreme leader should be allowed to vote?

Why does adding neo in front of everything give me bad connotations? Is neo always bad, I thought it just meant new

Probably because it is bad.  The common good and the needs of the people should come before privatisation and deregulation. 

this is why left wing governments fail. too many demands for money, not enough deregulation

Is it? Or is it because of interference from neoliberals?

At heart I'm a socialist, but I see that there are faults.  We can learn from the mistakes of the past but we can also create a more socially just and egaliterian society as an independent nation that will never happen under Westminister rule. 

This is a class war.

A class war?

for you maybe (an evangelical proponent of an extreme political view) but come on, its not for most Scottish voters

And you say this because you are in touch with what Scottish voters think from middle England?

no, but i don't think you can assume your view overlays to a Scottish population as a whole, which you seem to do

You are an extreme view, i think, as very very left wing thoughts are these days in modern western societies

I can imagine he hides his views at most door steps. Reading posts on this thread by KMAC are a strong message to people. He gets further left as the days go on. Reading posts for last few weeks only now are you seeing a true vision.

I worry that an independent Scotland could be infiltrated by people with extremely polar views. This demonstrates why as they are softened when it suits them. Hopefully in a yes vote these people will be kept as far away from decision making as physically possible.

And hopefully in a post yes Scotland people like you are no longer here.  I bet you like to think of yourself as one of those "proud patriotic Scots" that are full of self loathing and don't think you can manage without the guiding hand of Westminister.  Its stomach churning.  

Maybe these people might just be rational, relatively risk averse people who like their current lifestyle and think themselves and Scotland as a whole could be substantially worse off by changing?

[arbboy]

This is a class war.

It's odd - I could have sworn it was about self-determination, a freedom for people to be governed by an administration of their own choosing, to make their own decisions about their lives rather than having them imposed from 300 miles away.

But no, apparently it's a class war.

And all of that falls under class for me, with self determination the people of Scotland take control of their own destiny and give two fingers to the pampered public schoolboys who aren't in our class. 

Would love to follow you around for a day chapping doors to see what really goes on.