Independence Referendum

[DungBeetle]

Regarding the EU, I don't think it is safe to assume that Scotland will be "fast tracked" for membership or use of Euro.  

Legally Scotland will have to follow the same path as any other fledgling nation and have the unanimous support of the European Council.   The Spanish will have a weary eye on this, as they won't want to encourage their own potential seperatist regions by making things easy for Scotland?

[maccol]

One of the many reasons I will be voting No is that in so much of the Yes activists diatribe, on social media especially, there is a clear undercurrent of a much wider agenda.
This agenda is one of Scotland ,in the event of a yes vote, becoming some sort of Socialist Nirvana trying to build a version of society which was discredited in the eighties and certainly has no place in 2014.
If Yes does win the political in-fighting which would follow would be an embarrassment to the whole country as a tiny number of activists attempt to write a "constitution" for the nation and hijack our democracy on the way.
Then again I am an oldie.

[Ironside]

Thing that gets me is we have no idea what we are voting for as the constitution hasn't been written what if we vote yes but don't like the constitution drawn up after the referendum will we get another vote

[Eck]

Thing that gets me is we have no idea what we are voting for as the constitution hasn't been written what if we vote yes but don't like the constitution drawn up after the referendum will we get another vote

yes they are called elections

[arbboy]

Thing that gets me is we have no idea what we are voting for as the constitution hasn't been written what if we vote yes but don't like the constitution drawn up after the referendum will we get another vote

yes they are called elections

you won't get another vote to get back into the UK though.  I think that's his point.

[Eck]

Thing that gets me is we have no idea what we are voting for as the constitution hasn't been written what if we vote yes but don't like the constitution drawn up after the referendum will we get another vote

yes they are called elections

you won't get another vote to get back into the UK though.  I think that's his point.

true, but that isn't what he said. You don't need a vote on independence to change your constitution once you are independent.

As for the socialist Nirvana Colin, really? You think we are going to turn into Cuba or something? I don't think the prospect of a government with more of a social conscience is a bad thing but I am not deluded enough to believe they are going to ignore economics. If some on the left believe we would be the socialist state of Scotland then they will be very disappointed.

[TightEnd]

the SNP would be seen as centre-left?

as a majority in the scottish parliament, then policies continue i assume?

surely in this day and age a lurch to the left is completely untenable.

so if scotland votes yes it gets the current left leaning social democracy, as opposed to the rest of the uk having slightly right leaning social democracy now and probably left leaning in a years time

[Ironside]

Thing that gets me is we have no idea what we are voting for as the constitution hasn't been written what if we vote yes but don't like the constitution drawn up after the referendum will we get another vote

yes they are called elections

no we get to vote on an government not a constitution, do we have one chamber of power or 2  are both elected or is one appointed ect ect
or can we turn Scotland into a communist state?
will there actually be elections in a new independent country or would the governing party be able to do away with them with if they get a big enough majority

yeah most of the above is exaggerated but surely the constitution should of been drawn up before we vote

[Ironside]

the SNP would be seen as centre-left?

as a majority in the scottish parliament, then policies continue i assume?

surely in this day and age a lurch to the left is completely untenable.

so if scotland votes yes it gets the current left leaning social democracy, as opposed to the rest of the uk having slightly right leaning social democracy now and probably left leaning in a years time

nothing centre left about the snp apart from being called the tartan tories they are the furthest left of all the main parties in scotland

[DungBeetle]

the SNP would be seen as centre-left?

as a majority in the scottish parliament, then policies continue i assume?

surely in this day and age a lurch to the left is completely untenable.

so if scotland votes yes it gets the current left leaning social democracy, as opposed to the rest of the uk having slightly right leaning social democracy now and probably left leaning in a years time

I assume if Scotland votes Yes then Labour immediately lose a bunch of Scottish MPs and it makes Miliband's task harder next year than the open goal he has now.

I hope if they are committed to leaving then Scots don't get influence to decide the outcome of the next 5 year parliament for the remainder of the UK?

[arbboy]

the SNP would be seen as centre-left?

as a majority in the scottish parliament, then policies continue i assume?

surely in this day and age a lurch to the left is completely untenable.

so if scotland votes yes it gets the current left leaning social democracy, as opposed to the rest of the uk having slightly right leaning social democracy now and probably left leaning in a years time

I assume if Scotland votes Yes then Labour immediately lose a bunch of Scottish MPs and it makes Miliband's task harder next year than the open goal he has now.

I hope if they are committed to leaving then Scots don't get influence to decide the outcome of the next 5 year parliament for the remainder of the UK?

Me and Redarmi were just discussing this.  Surely from the betting for the next GE scotland must still be included next year otherwise the tories are a huge price if Scotland vote yes as labour pretty much couldn't win without Scotland and the masses of red seats surely?  If the jocks do leave instantly then why is every firm still betting on next year's GE?

[maccol]

Thing that gets me is we have no idea what we are voting for as the constitution hasn't been written what if we vote yes but don't like the constitution drawn up after the referendum will we get another vote

yes they are called elections

you won't get another vote to get back into the UK though.  I think that's his point.

true, but that isn't what he said. You don't need a vote on independence to change your constitution once you are independent.

As for the socialist Nirvana Colin, really? You think we are going to turn into Cuba or something? I don't think the prospect of a government with more of a social conscience is a bad thing but I am not deluded enough to believe they are going to ignore economics. If some on the left believe we would be the socialist state of Scotland then they will be very disappointed.

I believe that there is a hard-core of "traditional" left-wing socialist activists who would like to take Scotland a lot further left than you or I would wish it to go Jim.
Just look at some of KMacs comments and links.They certainly promulgate some left-wing  policies which cant possibly be financially viable.
There is just a feeling I have that woolly,centerist Nationalism as we know it,is going to be ambushed somewhere down the line.

[DungBeetle]

I used to think that Labour couldn't win without Scotland, but interestingly ignoring Scottish seats doesn't change too many election results historically.  Think the Tories would have had outright majority for this parliament without need for coalition, but don't think it changes things as much as you would think (obviously has vast impact on how powerful majorities are though).

The concept of all the Scots being able to vote for a 5 year UK government if they are leaving the following year seems completely undemocratic to me, although I wouldn't be surprised at all given that Labour already have a built in 6% advantage due to boundaries so it seems anything goes.

[DungBeetle]

Perhaps the potential impact of Scotland leaving is already built into the General Election price, and Labour will shorten if the "No" vote happens?

[Ironside]

I used to think that Labour couldn't win without Scotland, but interestingly ignoring Scottish seats doesn't change too many election results historically.  Think the Tories would have had outright majority for this parliament without need for coalition, but don't think it changes things as much as you would think (obviously has vast impact on how powerful majorities are though).

The concept of all the Scots being able to vote for a 5 year UK government if they are leaving the following year seems completely undemocratic to me, although I wouldn't be surprised at all given that Labour already have a built in 6% advantage due to boundaries so it seems anything goes.

think labour has only needed the scottish MPs twice or something in elections since the war or something like that i always thought it would be a massive change