Independence Referendum

[doubleup]

Even if its a Yes vote it wont happen until 2016 so 2015 GE will be fought under existing system with Scottish MPs.

cheers Simon that would explain why firms are still betting as if nothing is happening.  Like Dung says though it's pretty worrying how the jocks will be allowed to vote for the next 5 years when they won't be a part of it for the whole duration.

As a matter of interest if "jocks" was substituted with "pakis" would it be offensive?

[TightEnd]

Even if its a Yes vote it wont happen until 2016 so 2015 GE will be fought under existing system with Scottish MPs.

cheers Simon that would explain why firms are still betting as if nothing is happening.  Like Dung says though it's pretty worrying how the jocks will be allowed to vote for the next 5 years when they won't be a part of it for the whole duration.

As a matter of interest if "jocks" was substituted with "pakis" would it be offensive?

Yes it would

Mark refers to "jocks" a lot on these posts and until now no one has picked him up on it

if it causes offence i am sure he would stop

does it?

[arbboy]

Even if its a Yes vote it wont happen until 2016 so 2015 GE will be fought under existing system with Scottish MPs.

cheers Simon that would explain why firms are still betting as if nothing is happening.  Like Dung says though it's pretty worrying how the jocks will be allowed to vote for the next 5 years when they won't be a part of it for the whole duration.

As a matter of interest if "jocks" was substituted with "pakis" would it be offensive?

Yes it would

Mark refers to "jocks" a lot on these posts and until now no one has picked him up on it

if it causes offence i am sure he would stop

does it?

If it causes offence i will change it obviously.  One of my best mates is Scottish and everyone calls him 'Jocko' so it's a habit which means nothing offensive in the slightly.  I should point out 87.5% of my family is Scottish so i would be insulting myself as much as any Scottish people. 

[DungBeetle]

Jocks is offensive now?  I have trouble keeping up.  Are we still allowed to say poms and aussies during the ashes?

[doubleup]

When I was young everyone quite happily used the word "Paki" as an abbreviation of Pakistani.  There was absolutely no offence intended.  At some point (I'm not sure when) it became a derogatory term.  Now it is unacceptable.

Arbhoy and anyone else using terms that refer to a "different" group of people might not intend to cause offence, but that doesn't mean that they won't cause offence.

[Doobs]

Isn't jock more like Geordie, Tyke, Taff or Scouser rather than Paki?  You'd usually have to put something offensive in front of it to cause offense.  I guess if your whole tone was offensive you could see it as racist, but I don't really see it.

My family by birth is a mixture of Smoggies, Tykes and Jocks.

[celtic]

I think paki is fine when being used in the right way. It becomes problematic when it's followed by a derogatory term. I've noticed here in scotchland, that it is used quite openly, and in a non derogatory way, and it seems to be normal.

[Doobs]

When I was young everyone quite happily used the word "Paki" as an abbreviation of Pakistani.  There was absolutely no offence intended.  At some point (I'm not sure when) it became a derogatory term.  Now it is unacceptable.

Arbhoy and anyone else using terms that refer to a "different" group of people might not intend to cause offence, but that doesn't mean that they won't cause offence.

When I was young, people used Paki mostly as an offensive term.  Even when they weren't been deliberately offensive they were often causing offence to people of Indian origin.  It just isn't the same as Jock.

Born in Bradford FWIW.

[DungBeetle]

I went to a school with many different nationalities, and my understanding from my mates was that the reason "Paki" annoyed them so much was because people used it to describe all asian guys be they Indian, Bangladeshi or Sri Lankan.  

Conversely the 3 guys who were actually from Pakistan were happy with the term as long as the user was clear that he was talking about Pakistanis in particular and not just using it as a lazy generic term.  eg ODI Australia v Pakistan "Oh - the Pakis decided to bat but their openers have gone cheaply again".

This said, the foolproof advice is just not to use it due to it's misuse in the past by BNP etc

[celtic]

Here comes tal...

[doubleup]

I suppose context is everything.  As I said, I'm not quite sure when "Paki" became offensive but I assume that it was overwhelmingly being used in an aggressive context.

This particular thread is about a political issue of a minority of the UK, so to say "the jocks" shouldn't get this or that is probably more likely to cause offense than say "I can't understand how those jocks can listen to bagpipes" in tikay's diary.

[Doobs]

I think paki is fine when being used in the right way. It becomes problematic when it's followed by a derogatory term. I've noticed here in scotchland, that it is used quite openly, and in a non derogatory way, and it seems to be normal.

I should have added that the term Paki Shop was often used by people in the North East when I was younger.  It always sounded very offensive to me, but people born 50 miles North saw it differently.  Though I expect even them it was used fairly lazily to describe shops owned by people whose relatives had never even been to Pakistan, never mind been born there.  I have no idea how common it still is.  

[DungBeetle]

Think Jocks as a term has hardly ever been used as an offensive word, as opposed to the historical use of the word "Paki". 

Really don't see it personally as any different to Geordie, Brummie, Saffa, Aussie, Kiwi, Pom, Rosbif.  But I guess it's in the eye of beholder, so I'd not use it if anyone found it distasteful. 

[arbboy]

Think Jocks as a term has hardly ever been used as an offensive word, as opposed to the historical use of the word "Paki". 

Really don't see it personally as any different to Geordie, Brummie, Saffa, Aussie, Kiwi, Pom, Rosbif.  But I guess it's in the eye of beholder, so I'd not use it if anyone found it distasteful. 

It's not.  I have never met anyone Scottish who would take offence if you called them a jock.

[DungBeetle]

Neither have I.