Independence Referendum

[Marky147]

Standard Life said they would go in event of devolution.  They are still here.  

Regards the banks, having and being proud of roots is one thing.  But banks are decided on where they do their business.  

I said myth to many of the things you posted from your mate as that is what they are.   Bear in mind I am not impartial but I know this rguement very well and the lies and misinformation being spread by no campaigners re appalling.  

I am not a member of any political party, I used to be in Labour I left when Blair became PM.  My views are all my own, but they are well researched.  I work independently along with some really sharp minds in the RIC.  

I do alot of work on the ground, I give people an honest assessment of pros on cons.  I don't see many cons of independence.  It's normal.  

As I said, I haven't got a danny mate.

I just read between the lines, and it's obvious you're well informed on the subject, if not completely objective.

Glad it's not something I have to worry about, I've got enough on my plate without all that carry on!

[Kmac84]

So you think downsizing your buying power ten fold from my Tesco extra to corner shop example isn't a negative of the yes vote?  You have conveniently ignored that post.  Your answer please if you wouldn't mind.

How are we downsizing our buying power?  I never ignored it.  first time I just thought it wasn't worth comment tbh. 

Bigger isn't always better.  Countries with similar populations to Scotland do well for themselves when it comes to negotiating and buying.  Coincidentally, one of the main reasons we don't want to be part of the Union is that we don't get the decisions which we vote for. 

bigger is better when it comes to economies of scale and buying power in virtually every instance.  What will Scotland's credit rating be as a stand alone country compared to being part of the UK for example?

Well the UK lost its tripple A rating and Standard and Poor's have suggested Scotland couls start life as an independent country with the AAA rating.

Financial Time has also stated an Independent Scotland would start life in a better position than the UK.

If bigger was better how come the the UK rates 21 in the OECD list and an independent Scotland would be around 15?

[arbboy]

I said bigger was better when it revolved around buying power and buying power alone.  I appreciate there are odd times where it's better to be smaller but the running of large public sector services is not usually the case which have huge levels of fixed costs.

My point remains who buys their goods cheaper PER UNIT Tesco extra or your local corner shop?  How are Scotland going to fund this extra expenditure they will need to 'stand still' effectively buying the same goods for govt services with much reduced buying power and/or economies of scale from running NHS and other govt services in tandem with the rest of the UK?  Surely you are not deluded enough to actually think you will be able to maintain the same PER UNIT costs?  It's basic economics.

[Ironside]

will you have your own version of Eastenders once the BBC is scrapped on your new national tv network from the east end of Glasgow?

scotland will just do what ireland does and rent the bbc

And save 260 millin a year and invest that in a broadcaster that has integrity and remains impartial. 

wow you really think that by going independent thinks will change that much any broadcaster we get will likely have the same bias as the bbc is the bbc is biased then any broadcaster in scotland will likely have a bias scottish people are just people and not all of them are perfect infact i am the only perfect person i know we all have flaws

by being independent we will just have flaws by scottish people to deal with rather than british

Why wouldn't it.  If we had a constitution and part of that constitution was that the SBC mush show impartiality and balance then I would hope that it would be. 

BBC charter says its impartial but your telling me it isnt

and as no constitution has been drawn up yet we have no idea what will be in it

[DungBeetle]

So you think downsizing your buying power ten fold from my Tesco extra to corner shop example isn't a negative of the yes vote?  You have conveniently ignored that post.  Your answer please if you wouldn't mind.

How are we downsizing our buying power?  I never ignored it.  first time I just thought it wasn't worth comment tbh. 

Bigger isn't always better.  Countries with similar populations to Scotland do well for themselves when it comes to negotiating and buying.  Coincidentally, one of the main reasons we don't want to be part of the Union is that we don't get the decisions which we vote for. 

bigger is better when it comes to economies of scale and buying power in virtually every instance.  What will Scotland's credit rating be as a stand alone country compared to being part of the UK for example?

Well the UK lost its tripple A rating and Standard and Poor's have suggested Scotland couls start life as an independent country with the AAA rating.

Financial Time has also stated an Independent Scotland would start life in a better position than the UK.

If bigger was better how come the the UK rates 21 in the OECD list and an independent Scotland would be around 15?

Only read the first page of the report but the first bullet point says "The profile of the Scottish economy conforms with a profile of investment grade categories (I.e. BBB or higher)."

How did they get AAA from this?

[DungBeetle]

Only a very brief perusal but it seems people saying AAA from S&P are bending the truth here.

http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/repository/StandardAndPoorsKeyConsiderations.pdf

[Kmac84]

I said bigger was better when it revolved around buying power and buying power alone.  I appreciate there are odd times where it's better to be smaller but the running of large public sector services is not usually the case which have huge levels of fixed costs.

My point remains who buys their goods cheaper PER UNIT Tesco extra or your local corner shop?  How are Scotland going to fund this extra expenditure they will need to 'stand still' effectively buying the same goods for govt services with much reduced buying power and/or economies of scale from running NHS and other govt services in tandem with the rest of the UK?  Surely you are not deluded enough to actually think you will be able to maintain the same PER UNIT costs?  It's basic economics.

Well lets assume that the NHS isn't going to be privatised.  Hard to, I know given the quotes we have from Unison officials and the Labour Shadow Health Secretary Andy Burnham.  But the NHS in England, Scotland, Wales and NI is totally independent at the moment, there is no collective buying power.  Assuming there was to be in the future savings for bulk buying, I am  sure there could be a pooling or resources.  I mean we still want to be good neighbours. 

[Kmac84]

will you have your own version of Eastenders once the BBC is scrapped on your new national tv network from the east end of Glasgow?

scotland will just do what ireland does and rent the bbc

And save 260 millin a year and invest that in a broadcaster that has integrity and remains impartial. 

wow you really think that by going independent thinks will change that much any broadcaster we get will likely have the same bias as the bbc is the bbc is biased then any broadcaster in scotland will likely have a bias scottish people are just people and not all of them are perfect infact i am the only perfect person i know we all have flaws

by being independent we will just have flaws by scottish people to deal with rather than british

Why wouldn't it.  If we had a constitution and part of that constitution was that the SBC mush show impartiality and balance then I would hope that it would be. 

BBC charter says its impartial but your telling me it isnt

and as no constitution has been drawn up yet we have no idea what will be in it

We can't draw up a constitution until after the referendum. 

I don't know if you just try to be obtuse or if you generally don't understand this whole thing but some of the issues you raise are plain stupid, its like your trying to antagonise the arguements on both sides. 

Do you honestly believe the BBC is impartial?  Its a state propoganda force.  From Saville to the Referendum its tainted.

[Kmac84]

Only a very brief perusal but it seems people saying AAA from S&P are bending the truth here.

http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/repository/StandardAndPoorsKeyConsiderations.pdf

Interpretation and reading between the lines and looking at our peers and how they are rated at the moment.

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/independent-scotland-could-be-aaa-rated-standard-poors/

[MintTrav]

What an interesting thread.

A few things have been discussed, though, that really are non-issues:

Currency - If it is Yes, Scotland will have the choice of Sterling or Euro. If it wants to use Sterling, a way will be found to enable that. Currency union is very common throughout the world. If London didn't agree, Scotland could just peg its currency to Sterling anyway, just like the Irish Pound was pegged to Sterling for over 50 years. If Scotland wants to use the Euro, it will be fast-tracked in.

EU - There is no possibility that an independent Scotland would not be part of the EU. Most people in Scotland are well-disposed to the EU. Again, it would be fast-tracked in.

BBC - This really is a non-issue. Scotland would still receive BBC. The BBC has been watched for free by Ireland for ever. Either the same would apply, or the governments would come to an arrangement.


The rationale for Yes is coming through more strongly now than before and I have warmed to it a bit more lately. I think that Kmac84 has made some excellent points on here, but has also made some terrible ones, particularly when his lectures have flown in the face of known facts and he has insisted that the situation is different to what it is known to be.  One downside of a Yes win would be that Kmac84 would tell us that he had been right all along, when he has clearly made it up quite a few times.

[DungBeetle]

Only a very brief perusal but it seems people saying AAA from S&P are bending the truth here.

http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/repository/StandardAndPoorsKeyConsiderations.pdf

Interpretation and reading between the lines and looking at our peers and how they are rated at the moment.

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/independent-scotland-could-be-aaa-rated-standard-poors/

Standard and Poors say "Scotland would be rated BBB or above"

"Yes" campaign takes this and runs with headline "Scotland could be AAA". 

I'd call that dishonest headline writing.  As for their comparison to Germany (!) GDP per capita is only one of a huge number of factors in determining a credit rating for a sovereign.

[DungBeetle]

"If bigger was better how come the the UK rates 21 in the OECD list and an independent Scotland would be around 15? "

Correct me if I am wrong, but that list is GDP per capita which isn't relevant to Arbboy's point about economies of scale.  Irrespective of GDP per capita the fact remains that Scotland on it's own will obviously have a much smaller GDP than the UK which impacts purchasing power.

[Ironside]

BBC - This really is a non-issue. Scotland would still receive BBC. The BBC has been watched for free by Ireland for ever. Either the same would apply, or the governments would come to an arrangement.


 One downside of a Yes win would be that Kmac84 would tell us that he had been right all along, when he has clearly made it up quite a few times.

On the bbc my point exactly bbc does it's job and IMHO is impartial and not a state sponsored media company as per North Korea as iMac seems to think any new media company would have same flaws mainly that it would be run by people. BBC is well respected across the globe for its unbiased reporting but yes people make mistakes.

2nd point would be hilarious if it wasn't true yes campaigners claiming they were winning despite having less than 40% in polls I think I will turn off my phone tv and internet for 6 months and become a hermit no matter which side wins because the no campaigners are just as bad now and are blinkered to the yes charge

[TightEnd]

http://www1.politicalbetting.com/?p=70596&preview=true

"Unless Salmond can find a way of turning the oldies in the remaining 14 days independence will be lost"

[Jon MW]

"If bigger was better how come the the UK rates 21 in the OECD list and an independent Scotland would be around 15? "

Correct me if I am wrong, but that list is GDP per capita which isn't relevant to Arbboy's point about economies of scale.  Irrespective of GDP per capita the fact remains that Scotland on it's own will obviously have a much smaller GDP than the UK which impacts purchasing power.

Scotland will have a GDP roughly equivalent to Bangladesh. Obviously they will be better off because they have a better infrastructure and less population but it does give an indication of just how much of a minnow they would be.