Independence Referendum

[OverTheBorder]

This is a class war.

It's odd - I could have sworn it was about self-determination, a freedom for people to be governed by an administration of their own choosing, to make their own decisions about their lives rather than having them imposed from 300 miles away.

But no, apparently it's a class war.

And all of that falls under class for me, with self determination the people of Scotland take control of their own destiny and give two fingers to the pampered public schoolboys who aren't in our class. 

what the feck are you talking about, when/if we get our own government in Scotland it will still be the political elite that will rule us, still educated in the best public schools. only difference will be there will have been a few miles further north.

just look at labour most of there MPs now are career politians people don't come from the slums to stand nowadays they have to be educated its not going to change just because we move the location of where they sit to rule us

If they get 53% and all the snakes break cover with their agendas completely devolved from what they are promising voters, you will be left with multiple groups which will rarely agree. I would say a group made up predominantly of no voters is more likely to ultimately gain power, as without the popular nationalism smoke screen the voters will not stomach the kind of views KMAC and his kind are selling.

Pretty sure he was instrumental in gaining the North Korean vote. I imagine he envies them.

[Woodsey]

This is a class war.

It's odd - I could have sworn it was about self-determination, a freedom for people to be governed by an administration of their own choosing, to make their own decisions about their lives rather than having them imposed from 300 miles away.

But no, apparently it's a class war.

And all of that falls under class for me, with self determination the people of Scotland take control of their own destiny and give two fingers to the pampered public schoolboys who aren't in our class. 

what the feck are you talking about, when/if we get our own government in Scotland it will still be the political elite that will rule us, still educated in the best public schools. only difference will be there will have been a few miles further north.

just look at labour most of there MPs now are career politians people don't come from the slums to stand nowadays they have to be educated its not going to change just because we move the location of where they sit to rule us

Stop talking nonsense, who the hell wants an intelligent person with a great education to lead them?  Your leaders should be working class council neds, that would be the way forward for Scotland. Go go yes vote 

I'd prefer people with real life experience to lead us,  and just because you pay for your education it doesn't make it better. 

Yeah well you would say that lol 

[redsimon]

We remember this!

Doubt you do.

March 1979?

Labour Party didn't adopt the red rose until 1986!

[Longines]

We remember this!

You do realise that it's a fake?

[Somerled]

We remember this!

Doubt you do.

March 1979?

Labour Party didn't adopt the red rose until 1986!

Pesky facts getting in the way of propaganda.

[Kmac84]

So Labour never perpetuated those lies in 1979?

[Doobs]

So Labour never perpetuated those lies in 1979?

Who knows?  Caught red handed, just admit fair cop and move on.

[TightEnd]

We remember this!

Doubt you do.

March 1979?

Labour Party didn't adopt the red rose until 1986!

I don't know how old Kmac is, i had always assumed 18-19yo...hopeless enthusiasm and optimism yet to be tainted by the pessimism of adulthood (joke, joke), but you'd have to be in your 50s to remember that, which in any case is a cut and paste job from the 2000s i believe

[redsimon]

So Labour never perpetuated those lies in 1979?

Not looked too closely but didn't Labour back Devolution in 1979? (I might be wrong?)

I do remember a Labour MP got an amendment passed so Yes had to get 40% of the overall electorate as well as 50% + of the vote. They got 51%ish Yes but turnout was too low to get past the 40%?

Not all Labour MPs were pro Yes but there wasn't an official Labour No campaign then was there?

Devolution in 1979 is worlds apart from the Independence Question though yeah?

[Marky147]

I just guessed from the nick that Mac is 30.

[redsimon]

We remember this!

Doubt you do.

March 1979?

Labour Party didn't adopt the red rose until 1986!

I don't know how old Kmac is, i had always assumed 18-19yo...hopeless enthusiasm and optimism yet to be tainted by the pessimism of adulthood (joke, joke), but you'd have to be in your 50s to remember that, which in any case is a cut and paste job from the 2000s i believe

qualify unfortunately, also was a Labour member up to 2001

[Somerled]

The mask seems to be slipping somewhat.

Here's an illustration of how the Yes Campaign works. A ludicrous example but it works for just about every scenario, as they've proved pretty well.

Yes campaign man :- An Independent Scotland will send a manned mission to Jupiter.

Biased Journalist - How will you manage that?

Well, the people of Scotland have fantastic creative minds and are capable of many wonderful things. They will manage it easily.

I think you'll find it's a lot harder than that, no-ones ever managed it before.

Oh, you don't have faith in the people of Scotland? That's typical of you lot, always talking down our prospects. Where are your hopes and dreams?

It'll be terribly expensive, dangerous, and in any event Jupiter is made of Gas, where will you land?

We will attract the investment because we are so magnificent and wonderful and how dare you suggest otherwise. How do you know Jupiter is made of gas? Have you ever been there? Typical scaremongering from the doom and gloom merchants.

If none of that works, just blame the Tories.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell, always talk positive and portray everyone else as being negative. Works pretty well too as all folk are looking for is a quick soundbite rather than any substance.

Also managing to portray a collection of random groups led by the SNP as some kind of left wing alliance is pretty amazing. much kudos for that. 
All going to get terribly messy when this group falls apart and they realise that it ain't going to be a Socialist Republic.

What I'm not sure about is whether the disappointment of the converts will be worse if there's a No vote or a Yes. At least if there's a No they won't be expecting too much, if it's a yes they'll be expecting the world and will be rather upset when not a lot changes for them.

No doubt if it's Yes I'll be amongst the first to be told to leave the land of my birth, well if Kmac and his cohorts are in charge anyway. Doesn't seem a terribly sensible idea to drive out all the people who are running businesses. Maybe I'll be OK, after all I don't vote Tory, didn't go to a private school (I did get a degree, sorry about that) but I will, more definitely than ever, be voting No.

[maccol]

Have just caught up with todays Kmac rantings . I do not believe there would be any other Scottish contributor, whether Yesser or Noer, who would agree with him that
1 Its a class war
2 Anyone who opposes his views should consider leaving the country
3 Jim Sillars is not a nationalist.
4 Neo-liberals should not have the right to free speech in a democracy.

In fact Kmac I would seriously question whether your ideal Scotland would be a democracy at all.

[Longines]

Not looked too closely but didn't Labour back Devolution in 1979? (I might be wrong?)

I do remember a Labour MP got an amendment passed so Yes had to get 40% of the overall electorate as well as 50% + of the vote. They got 51%ish Yes but turnout was too low to get past the 40%?

Not all Labour MPs were pro Yes but there wasn't an official Labour No campaign then was there?

Some good background here: http://www.scottishpoliticalarchive.org.uk/wb/pages/referendum/1979/campaigners.php

[Kmac84]

Better Together have said the Orange Order aren't part of the official campaign.  That may be true but given that there is a Lodge at Westminister you have to wonder about that. 

http://www.orangeordersouthernengland.org/londonparliamentlol.htm