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Author Topic: Multi Prizepool Poker (MPP™) at DTD  (Read 41863 times)
outragous76
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« Reply #60 on: December 23, 2012, 09:55:35 PM »

It is an interesting dynamic as long as there is no chip-dumping between tiers.

That's a really good point! The wider the buy in spread the more likely this gets too

I guess it requires very specific circumstances but again requires watching
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« Reply #61 on: December 23, 2012, 10:32:24 PM »

It is an interesting dynamic as long as there is no chip-dumping between tiers.

That's a really good point! The wider the buy in spread the more likely this gets too

I guess it requires very specific circumstances but again requires watching

It's an obvious 'weakness' with the format.  Usually, chips are of equal value (as in they cost the same to purchase), but a £100 player doubling up against a £25 player has technically increased the 'value' of those chips.
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« Reply #62 on: December 24, 2012, 12:40:38 AM »

Sorry not read whole thread yet, but I ran exactly this in 2001. Goes great until people decide to get cute. I have disqualified more people in these than in any other tourney.
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« Reply #63 on: December 24, 2012, 12:51:15 AM »

This should be at the very least a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to giving it a go!
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« Reply #64 on: December 24, 2012, 10:57:01 AM »

I'm struggling to see why it would ever make sense to buy in at the highest level.

Looking at the sample tournament with a total value of £7,000, and assuming 35% payout for first place from each pot.

£25 wins tournament: £1531
£50 wins tournament: £1531 + £656 = £2187
£100 wins tournament: £1531 + £656 + £262 = £2449

Now I realise that P2/P3 will pay a higher % as there's less people in them but it's not going to make a huge difference, prob just an extra few hundred.

So you can pay £25 to win £1531, or you can pay £100 to win £2449. That is you could pay 4 times as much to not even win double.

Now I accept that it's possible it might be easier to win some of your money back as the £100 player as there's only 15 playing for that pot. But unless you happen to finish highest of those 15 then you're probably only getting your extra money back which makes me wonder why bother playing at that level. You could have just played bronze where the meat of the prizepool is and not risk the extra.


And that brings us to guarantees. I'm going to make up a hypothetical 250/500/1000 w/ £250,000 guaranteed as Simon said earlier. Let's assume it gets the following entries:

500 x 250 = £125,000 P1
100 x 500 = £25,000 P1 + £25,000 P2
50 x 1000 = £12,500 P1 + £12,500 P2 + £25,000 P3

= £225,000 total so £25,000 overlay. The %s give us:

£19,250 goes into P1 (77% of field)
£3,750 goes into P2 (15% of field)
£2,000 goes into P3 (the rest)

(A bit of rounding going on there but close enough)

Giving...

P1: £181,750
P2: £41,250
P3: £27,000

First prizes of:

£250 player: £63,612
£500 player: £78,050
£1000 player: £87,500

All are again assuming 35% payout for first prize.

Seems like a no brainer there to buyin for £250 unless I'm wildly off the mark here.
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Cf
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« Reply #65 on: December 24, 2012, 11:08:08 AM »

Also, 2 other questions...

1) Juice. Same for everyone or different on stake? If it's 10% so £250+£25 and £1000+£100. Or would it be capped at the lower amount? i.e. £1000+£25. Just seems a bit weird to me that the higher entrants are paying more to play in the same tournament.

2) Caps on players per PP. Say you've got a 450 capacity and guaranteed the event assuming a mix of PP entrants. 450 players come through the door and buyin to PP1. As a result the tournament doesn't hit the guarantee and the overlay is all put into PP1. Comes into what I put in the last post too. You can pay £250 and have the other £250 overlaid. Or just pay the £500 yourself so the comp hits the guarantee. Again, buy in for the lower amount. The money's gonna be in the prizepool anyway.
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« Reply #66 on: December 24, 2012, 11:10:57 AM »

But Cf if you enter at 1k you have 450 fewer people to beat to win 87k and you don't even have to knock one of them out.
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« Reply #67 on: December 24, 2012, 11:16:24 AM »

But Cf if you enter at 1k you have 450 fewer people to beat to win 87k and you don't even have to knock one of them out.

No, you don't. The 50 of you are only playing for £27,000. So if you're the highest finisher there you'll get £9,450 but if you want 1st prize from PP1 then you're going to have to win the tournament as everyone is in PP1.
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« Reply #68 on: December 24, 2012, 11:19:00 AM »

Cf you are missing the point completely.

Under your theory if there were three seperate tournaments running, a £25 with 5000 runners, a £100 tournament with 800 runners and a £500 tournament with 100 runners, you would choose to play the £25 tournament because it has the biggest first prize. Obviously that does not mean it is the most profitable tournament.

In this MPP you are effectively playing 3 tournaments at the same time. So if you are +EV in all the fields, then the highest buy-in is clearly the one you would choose.
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« Reply #69 on: December 24, 2012, 11:27:19 AM »

This works in theory but i can see so many stupid problems. Going to be terrible icm wise for the most expensive field. So -ev for the high rollers.

I can see so many problems that have been mentioned so far, just can't see it reallly. I hope it works, should be fun.

A typical Thursday night at DTD consists largely of regs playing the 50 and a mixure of regs and travellers playing the 25. Hi rollers? They can take it or leave it. Maybe sometimes poker can be more about fun than ICM considerations, maybe?
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« Reply #70 on: December 24, 2012, 11:30:44 AM »

This works in theory but i can see so many stupid problems. Going to be terrible icm wise for the most expensive field. So -ev for the high rollers.

I can see so many problems that have been mentioned so far, just can't see it reallly. I hope it works, should be fun.

A typical Thursday night at DTD consists largely of regs playing the 50 and a mixure of regs and travellers playing the 25. Hi rollers? They can take it or leave it. Maybe sometimes poker can be more about fun than ICM considerations, maybe?
yeah I agree me Flip Flop. The guys in the lower buy in comps have loads more fun. There are some absolute side splitting moments almost every orbit. I am up for this, will bring a car load of mates and will be funking for the £25 players so much.
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Cf
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« Reply #71 on: December 24, 2012, 11:34:24 AM »

Cf you are missing the point completely.

Under your theory if there were three seperate tournaments running, a £25 with 5000 runners, a £100 tournament with 800 runners and a £500 tournament with 100 runners, you would choose to play the £25 tournament because it has the biggest first prize. Obviously that does not mean it is the most profitable tournament.

In this MPP you are effectively playing 3 tournaments at the same time. So if you are +EV in all the fields, then the highest buy-in is clearly the one you would choose.

I can't argue with what you're saying there but I doubt most will think like that. I think the majority will ask "If I buyin for X then what is 1st prize?". The answer to that question seems to be more favourable to the lower buyin amount.

And thinking about it you'd especially consider this with a guarantee. The event is guaranteed anyway so just everyone buyin for the lowest amount. The money'll be put in - no need to put it there yourself. And as it's split by % of players per PP there doesn't seem to be much advantage in buying in for more hoping for an easier chance at a split because most of it will be put in the lower PP.
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« Reply #72 on: December 24, 2012, 11:56:57 AM »

The question about the juice is an interesting one.

CF's posting reminds me of an old Rolling Stones song from the album "Their Satanic Majestys Request" which was a kind of riposte to the Beatles' "Sergeant Pepper". I forget the name of the song but it started thusly:

"She's like a rainbow, she comes in colours everywhere"...
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« Reply #73 on: December 24, 2012, 12:19:13 PM »

The question about the juice is an interesting one.

CF's posting reminds me of an old Rolling Stones song from the album "Their Satanic Majestys Request" which was a kind of riposte to the Beatles' "Sergeant Pepper". I forget the name of the song but it started thusly:

"She's like a rainbow, she comes in colours everywhere"...

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« Reply #74 on: December 24, 2012, 12:19:30 PM »

Cf you are missing the point completely.

Under your theory if there were three seperate tournaments running, a £25 with 5000 runners, a £100 tournament with 800 runners and a £500 tournament with 100 runners, you would choose to play the £25 tournament because it has the biggest first prize. Obviously that does not mean it is the most profitable tournament.

In this MPP you are effectively playing 3 tournaments at the same time. So if you are +EV in all the fields, then the highest buy-in is clearly the one you would choose.

I can't argue with what you're saying there but I doubt most will think like that. I think the majority will ask "If I buyin for X then what is 1st prize?". The answer to that question seems to be more favourable to the lower buyin amount.

And thinking about it you'd especially consider this with a guarantee. The event is guaranteed anyway so just everyone buyin for the lowest amount. The money'll be put in - no need to put it there yourself. And as it's split by % of players per PP there doesn't seem to be much advantage in buying in for more hoping for an easier chance at a split because most of it will be put in the lower PP.

Again your thinking is flawed. If there is to be an overlay, it makes sense to buy-in for the highest amount so you are exposed to as much of the overlay as possible. Covering a slightly larger portion of the guaranteed prize pool yourself will have very negligible difference.

You could think of this concept as everyone playing the same tournament, with two different pools of last longer bets. Just because the prize pool in them is less than the main tournament, doesn't necessarily mean people won't play them. Degens gonna degen, and it's def the best option for anyone with an edge on the respective fields.
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