Hachem has it right, doesn't he?

[tikay]

We don't need to point fingers at young or old, it is all of us, we just need to make just a little effort to make the poker world a more inviting place, or we'll all be bickering as the ship sinks.

Teeks you do realise you've probably thrown more jabs at young players and internet 'kidz' on here than probably the rest of blonde combined.

Yup, I do, Mr 42 year old Cos.

We are debating a problem here, & you & me can point all the fingers we like, & score points galore if we wish, but how will that solve anything?

I make my points as I see them, honestly & politely. There will always be a young/old divide, that is the very nature of things.

Poker has a problem. It is in decline. We ought to try & address it, not score points.   

[tikay]

What's an 'O level', grandpa?

Do pay attention Andrew, it is the British Educational Exam System, GCE O & A Levels. "O" is ordinary, "A" Advanced.

I shamefully confess I failed eight O Levels, which must be some sort of record. I passed English Language though. Child prodigy.  

If you've read Harry Potter, the "inspiration" for the name of the first exams they do is painfully obvious. That's how basically everyone in the younger generation knows what the "o" part of O level means, anyway!

For what it's worth, I think part of the problem is that everyone likes to copy everyone else. People are pack animals, and tend to pick up each others tendencies as a part of growing up. In the poker world, what this means is that as more and more people put their headphones in, the general trend will shift to this being the norm. If people begin to take out the headphones, then that will become the norm. As someone who rarely shuts up at the table, it bothers me when I feel the need to get my Ipod out to try and fix the boredom I feel when the others at the table have decided not to talk back. Increasingly, I feel, I am ending up doing just this.

The flip side to all this is that there are people that want to come and play the game, but are made nervous by the clique-y nature of casino crowds. For sure, the first time I played in the pub I turned up with an Ipod, and the first time I played in a casino I did the same. Over time as I got more comfortable with the regs, the headphones came off and the relentless piss taking started, but I certainly won't forget how intimidated I was by this the first time it happened. To be honest, I don't mind the odd person not interacting with the table, as long as they aren't significantly slowing down the action.

The best table I ever played on was at the GPS in Stoke last year. It had nothing to do with the standard of play, but the banter that came from it. When I arrived at the table, everyone was pretty much silent, and I turned up in a hoodie and cold 4bet the first hand I sat down. The original raiser looked pretty pissed, and when the bet got through I flipped over KK and told the table that I think it's really bad manners to sit at a new table and raise before I've at least said hello. The affect was pretty much instantaneous, everyone seemed to relax, say hello and want to get involved in the conversation. Pretty much the whole table got involved in the conversation, apart from one guy wearing a genting patch, with the whole sunglasses, hood up, headphones in, covering his mouth when he was in a hand routine. I thought this was a pretty terrible advert for the people he was representing, and after gently, but fairly relentlessly, taking the piss out of the guy he took the headphones out and joined in. I must have been sat at that table for about nine hours, but it flew by. Hopefully this will be a an experience that they remember, that will prompt them to come and play again. Who knows. Wonder how Paul Ho found it :p

That is a brilliant Post.

Amen to almost all of that.

[tikay]

Sick 9 hours brag rexas!

We don't need to point fingers at young or old, it is all of us, we just need to make just a little effort to make the poker world a more inviting place, or we'll all be bickering as the ship sinks.

Teeks you do realise you've probably thrown more jabs at young players and internet 'kidz' on here than probably the rest of blonde combined.

This.

I would say that the one time we both played together was the main event, on the table I think you only looked up from your iPad to talk to me, all of the young guys were talking and chatting and there was another older guy who didn't say a word. The young guys absolutely did not look down on you for being on your iPad 99% of the time. If there was 7 guys on the "wrong side of 30" talking and chatting and 2 young guys on iPods 99% of the time they would be looked at so differently.

I have been treated badly and intimidated probably 15 times on a poker table almost every time was against somebody the wrong side of 40. I still every time I sit down try and speak to anybody who is around me ask them how they are, who they are, how old their daughter is etc! If there was an older guy who was threatened or sworn at by 15 different young guys in hoodies I don't think they would be so open.

The young guys who squeeze their hand out super slowly, recheck, pull the cards back again, stack out their raise then throw it over into,the pot re completely ridiculous, but they really really love doing it and being "that" guy and that's why they come back.

Back to young/old again, ugh.

Only time we've shared a Table? I think not.

My recollection of that Table at the WSOP differs from yours, though I was there a little longer than you were, as you (very unluckily) exited about 30 minutes in.

Be really good if we could get constructive here, & see how we can make poker tables a more welcoming environment. There will always be a young/old divide, nothing will solve that. We can make poker a better place though, you, & me, & everyone else, if we make a little effort instead of finger-jabbing.

So, let's get constructive instead of defensive, what would YOU do to make poker better, & help arrest the decline, Mr Plinop?

[theprawnidentity]

I got GCSE's therefore I must be young!

thin

[AlunB]

Agree with the couple of people who said poker reflects society. Poker is a mainstream thing now, so why should it be any different to mainstream society? Most people I've met in my life are nice, fairly anonymous and a bit boring. Who do you think buys all those Keane albums? As for people on their iphones have you been to a football match or a concert recently? That's just how it is.

I must admit I'm not even sure what point Hachem is trying to make here. Does anyone else know?

[pleno1]

Sick 9 hours brag rexas!

We don't need to point fingers at young or old, it is all of us, we just need to make just a little effort to make the poker world a more inviting place, or we'll all be bickering as the ship sinks.

Teeks you do realise you've probably thrown more jabs at young players and internet 'kidz' on here than probably the rest of blonde combined.

This.

I would say that the one time we both played together was the main event, on the table I think you only looked up from your iPad to talk to me, all of the young guys were talking and chatting and there was another older guy who didn't say a word. The young guys absolutely did not look down on you for being on your iPad 99% of the time. If there was 7 guys on the "wrong side of 30" talking and chatting and 2 young guys on iPods 99% of the time they would be looked at so differently.

I have been treated badly and intimidated probably 15 times on a poker table almost every time was against somebody the wrong side of 40. I still every time I sit down try and speak to anybody who is around me ask them how they are, who they are, how old their daughter is etc! If there was an older guy who was threatened or sworn at by 15 different young guys in hoodies I don't think they would be so open.

The young guys who squeeze their hand out super slowly, recheck, pull the cards back again, stack out their raise then throw it over into,the pot re completely ridiculous, but they really really love doing it and being "that" guy and that's why they come back.

Back to young/old again, ugh.

Only time we've shared a Table? I think not.

My recollection of that Table at the WSOP differs from yours, though I was there a little longer than you were, as you (very unluckily) exited about 30 minutes in.

Be really good if we could get constructive here, & see how we can make poker tables a more welcoming environment. There will always be a young/old divide, nothing will solve that. We can make poker a better place though, you, & me, & everyone else, if we make a little effort instead of finger-jabbing.

So, let's get constructive instead of defensive, what would YOU do to make poker better, & help arrest the decline, Mr Plinop?

Mandatory Bacardi breezer upon arrival to table.





Everybody speaks about how awful everything is but in reality there is more and more guaranteed tournaments every week smashing prize pools, it's jut society where the problem is and poker definitely doesn't seem to be struggling because of it.

We're in a recession still where everybody is broke and still week in week out you get thousands of punters playing live tournaments.

Stuff such as the ukpc, ukipt, GPS all do such a good job.

Being in a bar with 6 friends and 5 of them being on their phones checking instagram, Facebook or blonde is where the real problem lies IMO

[pleno1]

Agree with the couple of people who said poker reflects society. Poker is a mainstream thing now, so why should it be any different to mainstream society? Most people I've met in my life are nice, fairly anonymous and a bit boring. Who do you think buys all those Keane albums? As for people on their iphones have you been to a football match or a concert recently? That's just how it is.

I must admit I'm not even sure what point Hachem is trying to make here. Does anyone else know?

I guess he got dropped by stars and has got the hump.

[Rexas]

Sick 9 hours brag rexas!

Ikr, can't miss those "almost cashed" brags

I do honestly think the community needs to grow up, stop blaming each other and make a concerted effort to get poker out of the muck. One of the things I saw pretty regularly at dtd was the people in the £10 beginners comp having a fantastic time, chatting away, really getting in to the game. Someone would stand up and shout after binking a river card or winning a big pot, and almost without fail there would be a chorus of people sitting in the bigger games making snide remarks and throwing them condescending looks. I can't stand seeing that. I think it's fantastic that there are people that still enjoy the game for what it is, and even though I've become pretty jaded by it, I salute those people that honestly feel excited by winning those pots. More than that, I envy them. We're all to blame for creating this sort of hostility, and we are all responsible for doing our bit to sort it the fuck out!

[titaniumbean]

What's an 'O level', grandpa?

Do pay attention Andrew, it is the British Educational Exam System, GCE O & A Levels. "O" is ordinary, "A" Advanced.

I shamefully confess I failed eight O Levels, which must be some sort of record. I passed English Language though. Child prodigy.   

I too got English Language but pride of place goes to my Latin O Level.

Of course, when Ralph sat his Latin O Level it was classed as Modern Language.

bam

[pleno1]

why is poker in the muck? there is often 3/4 big tournaments on the same day and all with 100s of runners.

[Karabiner]

What's an 'O level', grandpa?

Do pay attention Andrew, it is the British Educational Exam System, GCE O & A Levels. "O" is ordinary, "A" Advanced.

I shamefully confess I failed eight O Levels, which must be some sort of record. I passed English Language though. Child prodigy.   

I too got English Language but pride of place goes to my Latin O Level.

Of course, when Ralph sat his Latin O Level it was classed as Modern Language.

When I sat my English Literature exam one of the set books was by Chaucer.

Chaucer ffs. Proud to say that I failed that one.

[Rexas]

why is poker in the muck? there is often 3/4 big tournaments on the same day and all with 100s of runners.

Cash games are completely dead outside of London, and there are still a lot of comps failing to hit their guarantees. Maybe I'm getting a bad view of it from Notts/Essex, but for the most part the people I see in cash games are almost entirely regs, and even those guys are starting to stop coming. Seems everyone is either broke, a "pro" or moving down the stakes.

Shout out to cambridgealex currently lurking itt, the fourth option is they become "cash cows"

[DungBeetle]

Agree with the couple of people who said poker reflects society. Poker is a mainstream thing now, so why should it be any different to mainstream society? Most people I've met in my life are nice, fairly anonymous and a bit boring. Who do you think buys all those Keane albums? As for people on their iphones have you been to a football match or a concert recently? That's just how it is.

I must admit I'm not even sure what point Hachem is trying to make here. Does anyone else know?

Whether he is right or wrong I don't know, his point is that the older pros knew that they needed to keep their customers entertained (or at least feel welcome) whereas the new breed of young pros don't understand this side of their trade with their incessant analysis of hands and talk of ranges.  I assume this is his point, and that the failure of the younger generation of pros to understand this will result in less recreational players which reduces profitability.

[pleno1]

why is poker in the muck? there is often 3/4 big tournaments on the same day and all with 100s of runners.

Cash games are completely dead outside of London, and there are still a lot of comps failing to hit their guarantees. Maybe I'm getting a bad view of it from Notts/Essex, but for the most part the people I see in cash games are almost entirely regs, and even those guys are starting to stop coming. Seems everyone is either broke, a "pro" or moving down the stakes.

Shout out to cambridgealex currently lurking itt, the fourth option is they become "cash cows"

id say

1/ for recs the allure of a huge prizepool for 50 quid buy in is way more attractive, these players havent dissapeared they have just moved onto the tournament scene
2/ the rake is really big, means players go bust quicker
3/ no rakeback

in Newcastle they have cash game leagues where every hour you spend you get x chips then at the end of the month there is a cash league, there is additional rake but it makes people come back and works well.

[Rexas]

why is poker in the muck? there is often 3/4 big tournaments on the same day and all with 100s of runners.

Cash games are completely dead outside of London, and there are still a lot of comps failing to hit their guarantees. Maybe I'm getting a bad view of it from Notts/Essex, but for the most part the people I see in cash games are almost entirely regs, and even those guys are starting to stop coming. Seems everyone is either broke, a "pro" or moving down the stakes.

Shout out to cambridgealex currently lurking itt, the fourth option is they become "cash cows"

id say

1/ for recs the allure of a huge prizepool for 50 quid buy in is way more attractive, these players havent dissapeared they have just moved onto the tournament scene
2/ the rake is really big, means players go bust quicker
3/ no rakeback

in Newcastle they have cash game leagues where every hour you spend you get x chips then at the end of the month there is a cash league, there is additional rake but it makes people come back and works well.

1/ Can't argue with that logic, although it does overall seem that there are way less people than there used to be
2/ I think this is probably a knock on effect of there being less people in the cardrooms, hence a need to increase rake to maintain the place itself. What do you think the rake should be?
3/ Definitely agree that the lack of incentives is a major issue for games at the moment. In the G they've been dealing a player rake free for an hour at a time, which I think is fun, but doesn't reward people for coming back. Some sort of rewards system would be fantastic, and perhaps help to justify the larger rake?