UK General Election 2015

[dakky]

Just watched the debate. I don't see why labour are so hellbent on renewing trident. I think if they had left that out of their manifesto and modified it to say they would spend the 100bn on much more needed services/cut the defecit then they could actually have won a majority. Can someone explain to me why we genuinely need it and why they have gone down this route

Because they genuinely believe we need it. There are some policies you can play politics with to try and get elected but his is one of those they are far less likely to do it with because it's a really serious issue and is bigger than just getting elected.

Why we need it? Deterrent basically. We are in a really uncertain spot at the moment with Russia playing games and the usual stuff going on in the Middle East. If at some point down the line things escalated and we would have no way to defend ourselves we could be stuffed and at the mercy of a tyrant. It's not like they can just Magic a few nukes out of thin air if the need arises, these things need to be carefully planned and implemented.

Yes I get deterrent.,.. But don't u think USA would hook us up ine worst case scenario. After all, we do have a "special relationship" lol

Your lol says it all. Why should we trust or rely on anyone else?

Strong point. Instinctively I don't believe we need it. But I guess I don't really have the full picture. I'm in a very similar boat as  George2L

[AdamM]

Felt like three ladies publicly interviewing for a job with Ed, while a looney chuntered xenophobic nonsense in the corner.

it would be suicide for the campaign had Ed and his seniors not specifically ruled out formal coalition with SNP, but I suspect the 'vote by vote agreements' with them and Plaid will work similarly. Plaid might even get a foot in the cabinet door.

Trident will be an interesting one in the next parliament. Supporting scrapping it would also kill the Labour campaign because (sadly) I think the majority feel like they want it renewing and swing voters might be tipped over the Tory line. I would like the argument to be made that instead of spending 100b on Trident that it could be split between extra spending on conventional defense (more relevant to the current threats) and extra spending elsewhere. Maybe a free vote in parliament would be a good idea. I'd actually rather have a public referendum on Trident than on the EU.

[DungBeetle]

Yes reading the wiki page is all we need to know. WP

All the key figures are there, it is all you need to know, debt is still going up but end austerity, alright son 

Um you do know wiki pages can be written amended by anyone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Kendall_%28poker_player%29

Check it elsewhere if you want, those figures are broadly correct.

I know the score- my point was that the Tory party are bandying on about austerity when in reality they're doing f all about it

I agree.  I assume what can be cut has been cut without reducing services significantly.  So we need to have an adult discussion about EVERYONE paying more tax.  Put the 40% rate up to 43%.  Put the 20% rate up to 22%.  Everyone just whining about the "rich" and wanting taxes just aimed at them won't cut it.

If we want world class services, then we ALL need to pay.  Unfortunately the electorate tend not to like it when it's actually them who have to pay a higher tax.  So we'll continue to talk of mansion taxes which will raise £2 billion which will fund a single week of NHS consumption.

[DungBeetle]

What we can be certain about is that between Labour and the Conservatives, they're going to hold 50%+ of the seats for an indeterminate period of time. I want to say the entirety of my lifetime, but I am not so sure given the way the previous election/current election are heading.

That being said, is there even the smallest chance of a change away from FPTP to a proportion based electoral system or would the big two just veto it constantly?

Who loses out more, the Conservatives, correct?

At the moment Labour have an advantage of 6% due to the boundaries.  But the people who really miss out are Libs and even more so UKIP and Greens.  UKIP might get 8% of the vote and get less than 1% of the seats for example.

[DungBeetle]

So far from Ed, the only weapon he's going to use to cut the deficit is to have a mansion tax ?

Liked the fact we heard a left wing alternative and think, especially early in the debate, the various small parties made a pretty good job of showing Labour as Tory lite.

Surprised anyone actually thinks Milliband did well though..it's like if he doesn't come across as a complete dickwad he's doing well. Plus he says yurrs, rather than years, gtfo

It´s literally all he needs, if he´s on TV loads everyone finds out the media were exaggerating about how much of a dickwad he is and Labour hose up with the most seats and he´s the next Prime Minister. The only real hope the Tories had was the Milliband myth would continue to polling day. He´s not very impressive as a statesman but he´s OK, kind of similar standard to Cameron.

True.  But in my mind the only real hope the Tories have is if all the UKIP voters bottle it on polling day and switch back to Cameron.  I don't think Labour have any hope of an outright majority, but if they make a deal with SNP then that will still give Miliband power.

[dakky]

I just spoke to my brother and he reckons maybe a small majority (51-60%) of  the country are in favour of Trident, with the portion against it most likely to be the younger generations. He is very well informed in general and I rate his opinions very highly.

But the younger generations are so much less likely to vote in general.

We also talked about the economy which everyone is blaming Labour for but it's just BS. The fact is we were part of a global recession due to the 2008 sub-prime disaster, and so much of our GDP at the time (20ish %) was from the financial sector. The regulation was cocked up by both tories and labour in their own ways I guess.

We were starting to recover in 2010, and the tories halted that recovery; it is only recently we have started to come out of this recession and I don't think we can thank the Tories for that really.

He believes that labour have missed a trick in their campaign around this.

I feel like this election was labour's for the taking a year or so ago but they did such a piss-poor job convincing the country of this. It is only recently that Ed has stepped up to the plate and become much stronger and more credible in my opinion.

I believe that the Scotland referendum has driven people towards the SNP causing them to probably lose all those seats in Scotland which are crucial to them. I don't know enough about why this has happened however.

I do see his point about not wanting to form an officilal coalition with a party that wants to see the union broken up, and agree with him (and Cameron!) on this fact. I know that when push comes to shove he will probably do some kind of deal them because what was clear from last night is that they all wanted the Tories out. I can kind of understand about why Labour are saying they are pushing for an overall majority even though we all know isn't going to happen, and I can see why the Tories have said the same, but in reality it is an inevitability.

I also believe that leaving the EU would be terrible for us. I doubt that the UK would vote to but you never know with these campaigns (Scotland was ridiculously close for example in their referendum).

[TightEnd]

from google

the most searched terms in the uk during the debate last night

whether ypou agree or disagree with other people on here, at least we aren't at this level..

Click to see full-size image.

[TightEnd]

who do you think “won” the debate? Survation for @DailyMirror

Click to see full-size image.

[DungBeetle]

"We also talked about the economy which everyone is blaming Labour for but it's just BS. The fact is we were part of a global recession due to the 2008 sub-prime disaster, and so much of our GDP at the time (20ish %) was from the financial sector. The regulation was cocked up by both tories and labour in their own ways I guess."

Labour weren't to blame for the credit crisis, but they ran a budget deficit 2002 to 2007 when we had a credit boom.  Tax receipts were rolling in but we still didn't balance the book.   Debt to GBP ratio came down but GDP was inflated massively by personal debt.  If Labour had been more responsible pre bust then we'd have been better positioned to respond.

You are correct that Labour was a victim of the banking crisis, but to absolve them of blame is too simplisitc.

[Doobs]

"We also talked about the economy which everyone is blaming Labour for but it's just BS. The fact is we were part of a global recession due to the 2008 sub-prime disaster, and so much of our GDP at the time (20ish %) was from the financial sector. The regulation was cocked up by both tories and labour in their own ways I guess."

Labour weren't to blame for the credit crisis, but they ran a budget deficit 2002 to 2007 when we had a credit boom.  Tax receipts were rolling in but we still didn't balance the book.   Debt to GBP ratio came down but GDP was inflated massively by personal debt.  If Labour had been more responsible pre bust then we'd have been better positioned to respond.

You are correct that Labour was a victim of the banking crisis, but to absolve them of blame is too simplisitc.

I wouldn't even go that far, the banking crisis just shone a light on the underlying structural deficits within these countries.  The underlying issues have still not been fully resolved many years after the banking crisis has effectively finished.  Whilst contining to blame bankers gets lots of points with the voters, it has no place in the current situation.  The current issue is simply that we don't get enough in tax receipts to cover out outgoings for pensions, NHS and education etc.

Whilst the crisis and recession was Global, each individual country was also to blame and Labour should have been aiming for a much more balanced budget that late in an economic cycle. 

[TightEnd]

labour pm has just gone >50% today on the electionsetc forecasts

[dakky]

"We also talked about the economy which everyone is blaming Labour for but it's just BS. The fact is we were part of a global recession due to the 2008 sub-prime disaster, and so much of our GDP at the time (20ish %) was from the financial sector. The regulation was cocked up by both tories and labour in their own ways I guess."

Labour weren't to blame for the credit crisis, but they ran a budget deficit 2002 to 2007 when we had a credit boom.  Tax receipts were rolling in but we still didn't balance the book.   Debt to GBP ratio came down but GDP was inflated massively by personal debt.  If Labour had been more responsible pre bust then we'd have been better positioned to respond.

You are correct that Labour was a victim of the banking crisis, but to absolve them of blame is too simplisitc.

I didn't mean to absolve them of blame. I wrote my post as a flurry of thoughts not totally balanced obviously.

[dakky]

labour pm has just gone >50% today on the electionsetc forecasts

are labour losing more projected seats total or has it stayed similar?

[StuartHopkin]

I would love to see what the vote would be if the form said

[  ] Carry on as we are

[  ] Allow the Scottish party, who don't want to be part of the UK, to have a large influence over the next 4 years

[George2Loose]

Think Labour have gone favourite with the bookies to form a government