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Poll
Question: I will be voting for the following in the General election  (Voting closed: May 10, 2015, 02:10:42 PM)
Conservative - 41 (40.6%)
Labour - 20 (19.8%)
Liberal Democrat - 6 (5.9%)
SNP - 9 (8.9%)
UKIP - 3 (3%)
Green - 7 (6.9%)
Other - 3 (3%)
I will not be voting - 12 (11.9%)
Total Voters: 100

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Author Topic: UK General Election 2015  (Read 252486 times)
TightEnd
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« Reply #1860 on: May 09, 2015, 12:09:24 PM »

Brilliant comparison of UK election map and former coalfields

hadn't seen this perspective

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TightEnd
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« Reply #1861 on: May 09, 2015, 12:13:32 PM »

the further north you go....

Ukip average in England:
North E 16.7
Yorkshire 16.7
West Mid 16
East 16.4
East Mid 15.3
South E 14.9
South W 14
North W 13.7
London 8.2
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« Reply #1862 on: May 09, 2015, 12:14:57 PM »

Also those saying sour grapes etc. Politics for many is a belief system. I'm sure if Labour had one there wouldn't be that much good grace from the Tory supporters (turn the lights off etc).

Cameron can have no excuses this time. He needs to deliver. I just hope the cuts he plans for welfare don't have a long term effect on our country. I do think the in/out referendum on Europe is the right thing to do also but hopefully it'll happen next year rather than 2017

True, but after a lot of the sanctimonious bollocks written from the left supporters since the result, you can bet your arse I'm gonna have a big fat gloat  
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« Reply #1863 on: May 09, 2015, 12:24:09 PM »

Brilliant comparison of UK election map and former coalfields

hadn't seen this perspective



This pretty much sums up the death of the traditional labour party as i said the other day.  For the last 40 years (since the pits closed) modern England has consistently rejected the idea of having a traditional labour party in charge.  It is very hard to see this changing moving forward.
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« Reply #1864 on: May 09, 2015, 12:28:48 PM »

Brilliant comparison of UK election map and former coalfields

hadn't seen this perspective



This pretty much sums up the death of the traditional labour party as i said the other day.  For the last 40 years (since the pits closed) modern England has consistently rejected the idea of having a traditional labour party in charge.  It is very hard to see this changing moving forward.


Says it all really. I suspect the Open minded folk in these areas don't read quite as much as Tighty....
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« Reply #1865 on: May 09, 2015, 12:29:47 PM »

Have the tories made any inroads into the big cities though?

In Nottingham City all the Labour majorities increased, same in Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds Sheffield London etc .
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TightEnd
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« Reply #1866 on: May 09, 2015, 12:34:17 PM »

Have the tories made any inroads into the big cities though?

In Nottingham City all the Labour majorities increased, same in Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds Sheffield London etc .

it is certainly more polarised

while labour is wiped out in scotland, which wants a completely different labour party than english voters seem to want, the tories don't need to win the cities do they?

if labour was winning 30-40 seats in scotland then they would need inner cities.
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« Reply #1867 on: May 09, 2015, 12:38:36 PM »

The more I read and think about it, the more I think the Labour Party is screwed for at least 5-10 years.

They don't have a clear vision. They could move to the left but the public don't want that, they could try to move into the middle ground but so much of that means going against their core beliefs.

You've got the unions in theory trying to pull their strings - they pushed through Ed Milliband as leader when their MP's wanted his brother I think.

The leadership of that party is a poisoned chalice. If you were a young ambitious possible Labour leader I think you would be side stepping any idea of running for leader and let some other mug take the pain. In 5-10 years the situation may look different.

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« Reply #1868 on: May 09, 2015, 12:40:35 PM »

Have the tories made any inroads into the big cities though?

In Nottingham City all the Labour majorities increased, same in Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds Sheffield London etc .

Increasing the majorities in these seats doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to labour getting into power.  You will always have these seats in the medium term.  It is why labour are not gaining increased vote share in the city seats that they don't have that is their massive problem.  People in these seats consistently tell the old fashioned labour party they are not interested in their beliefs and having them run their country.
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« Reply #1869 on: May 09, 2015, 12:49:09 PM »

The more I read and think about it, the more I think the Labour Party is screwed for at least 5-10 years.

They don't have a clear vision. They could move to the left but the public don't want that, they could try to move into the middle ground but so much of that means going against their core beliefs.

You've got the unions in theory trying to pull their strings - they pushed through Ed Milliband as leader when their MP's wanted his brother I think.

The leadership of that party is a poisoned chalice. If you were a young ambitious possible Labour leader I think you would be side stepping any idea of running for leader and let some other mug take the pain. In 5-10 years the situation may look different.



Labour is two parties within a party (so are the conservatives, but seperated by fewer issues)

labour's two parties are seperated by different ideologies

the modernising blair wing is electable  but does not appeal to the working class or redistributive socialists

the left wing is unelectable in england (going back to 1974)

the funding comes much from the unions so the horrendous len mccluskey of unite is a key figure and they would prefer the left

with the membership to the left, the unions to the left and the mps broadly to the right, the likes of umanna have a tough road to get in as leader

the tories think they have a fantastic opportunity to be in for 10-15 years. the libs are decimated and have no incumbency boost for 2020. labour is hurt as much by ukip votes as they are, labour won't be back in scotland by 2020.......the list goes on

no doubt the cameron government could go very unpopular by mid-term but labour needs to put up "blair lite" to win. they might not in 2020

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« Reply #1870 on: May 09, 2015, 12:49:48 PM »

The more I read and think about it, the more I think the Labour Party is screwed for at least 5-10 years.

They don't have a clear vision. They could move to the left but the public don't want that, they could try to move into the middle ground but so much of that means going against their core beliefs.

You've got the unions in theory trying to pull their strings - they pushed through Ed Milliband as leader when their MP's wanted his brother I think.

The leadership of that party is a poisoned chalice. If you were a young ambitious possible Labour leader I think you would be side stepping any idea of running for leader and let some other mug take the pain. In 5-10 years the situation may look different.



I think economics are the biggest factor.  The UK and most other western nations have a huge debt problem and low economic growth.  I hope that we can get enough growth to stop the debt burden being the cause of a meltdown which would make people question the entire system.

 
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« Reply #1871 on: May 09, 2015, 12:50:21 PM »

The really ironic thing is the Tories winning is that it's almost certainly good for me financially.

But when I grew up my dad drummed into me "You don't vote for what suits you, you should always vote for people who need help. The strong should help the weak. The rich should help the poor. That way society works best"

My dad should have been a Tory in every way. He was well qualified, had a great, well paid job and lived in a lovely house.

But he cared for people who didn't fare so well in life as he did. He wanted the best for his fellow man.

And he utterly detested Thatcher.

I loved my Dad.

I think I love your Dad. 

If only everyone thought like that, we'd all be far better off. 


Possibly the most stupid thing said so far.

Once again, suggesting that a Tory has no compassion, never gives to anyone but themselves, and a Labour supporter gives, gives gives.

Did you move out of your nice house and give the balance of your money to those less well off, so you all lived a similar lifestyle to those less well off??!! Or did he give to charity,or do something to actually aid lesser off people? I suspect the biggest givers to charity are actually evil, blood sucking Tories.

You suspect?  Is this like all these people you know that prefer zero hours contracts? 


Yes Kmac, I suspect. I have no facts, but I know plenty of Tories, including myself, that give plenty to charity.

As for zero hours contracts, I stand by what I say, especially having since said it, the media readily accept that more and more people like them.

Dont be a tosser! Wink

There appear to only be tossers in this thread and your in good company with your mate Arb.

Giving to charity is exactly the same as doing something for those worse off mate.   Many charities are ran as a commercial business by middleclass types and many others who look to use chariabe status to avoid paying tax on their incomes.  

Try giving up a day a week and working in a foodbank or doing some real activism in an area worse off than your middle class bubble.  
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« Reply #1872 on: May 09, 2015, 12:51:13 PM »

I'm not astounded or surprised that conservatives win general elections - it's built so that they do. I have voted conservative in the past and probably will again in my lifetime with the right leader, local candidate and most importantly, manifesto.

But I'm astounded that THESE conservatives managed to win considering their economic policy and that they won by getting people who wouldn't normally vote conservative to do so and even though for a lot of them it wont have been in their day-to-day best interests to do so. (Obv people here think differently on this point so fair play, gg, gl, etc) like Rich I think the fear vote has helped a lot.

I've studied economics my entire adult life and I'm about to be a little more qualified in it than I am now and I think THIS conservative party is more right than the majority of swing voters are aware of. This is not the heir to Blair.

Amazing stuff. Time will tell how it turns out. I'd be amazed if we weren't back at a hung parliament in 5 years time unless DC really fecks things up. Let's hope not though.

FWIW I voted Labour this time. If they stay where they are on the ideological circle (I don't see a decent leader amongst them - pandering to the unions wins it again, groan) I'd probably move to centre ground next time. Who knows what 5 years will bring?

With the exception of the usual suspects with the rubdowns/"you're deluded" type comments it's been a great thread. Even with some of the terrible economic commentary - most notably from John Major! I guess it just shows what the electorate will swallow. Most of the input has been truly first class though and fair play to Rich for the life in it.

It's been emotional. Sort of.
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« Reply #1873 on: May 09, 2015, 12:52:12 PM »

Brilliant comparison of UK election map and former coalfields

hadn't seen this perspective



This pretty much sums up the death of the traditional labour party as i said the other day.  For the last 40 years (since the pits closed) modern England has consistently rejected the idea of having a traditional labour party in charge.  It is very hard to see this changing moving forward.

They haven't had the choice of a traditional Labour Party for much of the last 40 years.  Michael Foot then who?  Brown and Blair were fairly centrist.  Kinnock and Smith weren't that traditional left wing.  Milliband was just branded Red Ed, but didn't seem very left leaning at all and Balls was in favour of looking after the City.

All the people who have said that the Labour Party is dead can't have much of a memory, as it was only 5 years ago they were in charge and 10 since they were elected.  Just need a decent leader with a common touch and start looking more at the centre again.  There is bound to be a backlash against the SNP too.  These things just take time to swing the other way.
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« Reply #1874 on: May 09, 2015, 01:14:51 PM »

This is a very good article by one of Scotland's leading lefties. 

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/05/08/will-scotland-get-no-credit-for-a-new-politics/

I'm not Robin's biggest fan but he has away of energising and engaging people.   Well worth a read, and much of it makes complete sense about what we Scot's can do for England's left. 
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