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Author Topic: Online poker is not rigged - but might have flaws  (Read 6021 times)
mikeymike
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« on: February 26, 2015, 09:40:16 PM »

Online poker is not rigged

Online poker in my opinion is not rigged – that said it is certainly open to a range of abuses more so than live play.

All computers and computer software can be manipulated if you have the right hardware, software and a high level of coding knowledge.

I also believe that there is a flaw in all software – that’s why we have patches.

Poker software on all sites all probably have in built flaws that are not deliberately written into the code on purpose, but when you have a number of engineers each writing different snippets of code, anomalies happen.

Example

1.   Some sites have a larger percentage of the Ace falling on the river
2.   Some sites have a larger percentage of gut shots making it on the river
3.   Some sites if there is 3 all ins of pairs have larger percentage of the lower pair making trips

Unfortunately this information is not published in a detailed breakdown that is made available to the general poker playing public.

Some players and I include myself cannot win on a particular site irrelevant of what they do, though they can win on other sites.

My example – I could play 30 9 player sngs on pokerstars in a row have the largest chip stack with 5 players left and still not cash.

In fact its fair to say that if I did not play on pokerstars I would be a positive winning online player, but hey I like there site.

Cheers



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jakally
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« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2015, 09:48:41 PM »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-31302312
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Jon MW
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« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2015, 09:52:31 PM »


lol I was literally about to post the same link Cheesy
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kinboshi
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« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2015, 09:56:11 PM »

Online poker is not rigged

Online poker in my opinion is not rigged – that said it is certainly open to a range of abuses more so than live play.

All computers and computer software can be manipulated if you have the right hardware, software and a high level of coding knowledge.

I also believe that there is a flaw in all software – that’s why we have patches.

Poker software on all sites all probably have in built flaws that are not deliberately written into the code on purpose, but when you have a number of engineers each writing different snippets of code, anomalies happen.

Example

1.   Some sites have a larger percentage of the Ace falling on the river
2.   Some sites have a larger percentage of gut shots making it on the river
3.   Some sites if there is 3 all ins of pairs have larger percentage of the lower pair making trips

Unfortunately this information is not published in a detailed breakdown that is made available to the general poker playing public.

Really?  So all these people with tracking software, all these independent audits, and they've inserted some very clever code to make sure the player up against you makes his gut-shot on the river 5% more likely than it would be compared to random?  Wow...

You mention these three things as if they're 'fact'.  Where's the evidence?

Quote
Some players and I include myself cannot win on a particular site irrelevant of what they do, though they can win on other sites.

Sample size?  Quality of opposition?  Game selection?  Observer bias?

Quote
My example – I could play 30 9 player sngs on pokerstars in a row have the largest chip stack with 5 players left and still not cash.

Sounds like you need to improve your STT play

Quote
In fact its fair to say that if I did not play on pokerstars I would be a positive winning online player, but hey I like there site.

You prefer losing to winning?
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rfgqqabc
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« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2015, 09:56:48 PM »

Pokerstars is audited, just Google for information about their rng instead of letting your mind fool you
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kinboshi
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2015, 09:57:37 PM »


Very well written article Smiley
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celtic
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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2015, 10:08:44 PM »

Setting the line at 16.
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mikeymike
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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2015, 10:22:31 PM »

Poker Stars have had reliable auditor Cigital test their RNG (Random Number Generator). It passed the test, which seems to have been really detailed and to the point.

they still only test the RNG, NOT the entire play of a hand from shuffle to showdown. they also only run a sample number of hands

All software is flawed

WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE YOU ASK

My mate is a test engineer - he is ranked very highly which is why the big global software companies send him there coding before they release it so he can look for flaws and bugs - this goes out to about a 100 other test engineers world wide - they would not need these guys if there was not flaws
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nirvana
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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2015, 10:34:10 PM »

Poker Stars have had reliable auditor Cigital test their RNG (Random Number Generator). It passed the test, which seems to have been really detailed and to the point.

they still only test the RNG, NOT the entire play of a hand from shuffle to showdown. they also only run a sample number of hands

All software is flawed

WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE YOU ASK

My mate is a test engineer - he is ranked very highly which is why the big global software companies send him there coding before they release it so he can look for flaws and bugs - this goes out to about a 100 other test engineers world wide - they would not need these guys if there was not flaws

I'd like to support Mike here, all these sites are like buildings and require snagging. How can we be sure the snagging is finished ? Maybe not evidence as such, but pretty powerful support for gutshots, rivering and such
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Marky147
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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2015, 10:44:57 PM »

Setting the line at 16.

Grin
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Karabiner
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2015, 01:15:58 AM »

Any fool knows that it's FACT not "fact".
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mulhuzz
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« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2015, 05:29:04 AM »

Poker Stars have had reliable auditor Cigital test their RNG (Random Number Generator). It passed the test, which seems to have been really detailed and to the point.

they still only test the RNG, NOT the entire play of a hand from shuffle to showdown. they also only run a sample number of hands

All software is flawed

WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE YOU ASK

My mate is a test engineer - he is ranked very highly which is why the big global software companies send him there coding before they release it so he can look for flaws and bugs - this goes out to about a 100 other test engineers world wide - they would not need these guys if there was not flaws

what's happened there is that you've misunderstood both:

1) what an RNG does and
2) what a Test Engineer does.

Additionally, I don't think you've understood that the maths says it is random, and that maths isn't something you can take or leave. RNG can exist as a consequence of the rules of maths, not the other way round.
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Matt.NFFC.
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« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2015, 12:02:47 PM »

I always open up these threads really interested in what evidence the poster come up with, but, again, I'm left disappointed.

In this case, I'm thinking sample size, and the OP fails to provide any numbers or details of his findings or thoughts.

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teddybloat
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« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2015, 12:45:39 PM »

surprisingly the only site you dont win is also the one with the toughest fields. shock horror!

HH's on stars are also extensively datamined. mainly by the thousands of players with tracking software. these databases are huge and no bias has ever been flagged up by anyone, ever. never.

HH's are also datamined by companies who sell these HH's. again, millions of hands and no bias has been found by anyone, ever. not once. never.

the data is there. if there was a trend for more rivered aces then it would be flagged.

your not winning on stars over a large sample simply isnt due to them adjusting river frequecies to squash you. it probably isnt down to you being unlucky. stars is a tough field in certain formats / buyins. if you are a losing player there the regs will have software that will actively try and get them into your SNG. you will be targetted by the better players in your games. their seating software looks for reg / rec ratios and will sit them into any SNG with x-number of losing players already regged. as a losing player onn stars you are likely being hunted by better players. and the winning players on stars are generally better than the winning players on other sites at the same buy in. id wager that is why you stuggle there.

you are not special.

pokerstars doesnt care if you win or lose

the universe doesnt care if you win or lose.

sites dont rig action decks.

if they did it would show up in peoples databases

people have databases

it hasnt shown up

ever
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celtic
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« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2015, 12:47:31 PM »

surprisingly the only site you dont win is also the one with the toughest fields. shock horror!

HH's on stars are also extensively datamined. mainly by the thousands of players with tracking software. these databases are huge and no bias has ever been flagged up by anyone, ever. never.

HH's are also datamined by companies who sell these HH's. again, millions of hands and no bias has been found by anyone, ever. not once. never.

the data is there. if there was a trend for more rivered aces then it would be flagged.

your not winning on stars over a large sample simply isnt due to them adjusting river frequecies to squash you. it probably isnt down to you being unlucky. stars is a tough field in certain formats / buyins. if you are a losing player there the regs will have software that will actively try and get them into your SNG. you will be targetted by the better players in your games. their seating software looks for reg / rec ratios and will sit them into any SNG with x-number of losing players already regged. as a losing player onn stars you are likely being hunted by better players. and the winning players on stars are generally better than the winning players on other sites at the same buy in. id wager that is why you stuggle there.

you are not special.

pokerstars doesnt care if you win or lose

the universe doesnt care if you win or lose.

sites dont rig action decks.

if they did it would show up in peoples databases

people have databases

it hasnt shown up

ever


So, what you saying?
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