The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[DaveShoelace]

What % of politicians do you think went into today's meeting undecided about how they were going to vote? Call me a cynic, but IMO they have all already decided either way.

[doubleup]

doubt all have decided, as in many fields it is the margins that matter.

[AndrewT]

I think nearly all those who were undecided going in were not there to be swayed by arguments on either side, but delaying their decision for political reasons (seeing which way the wind is blowing, which way other people are voting first) before deciding.

[neeko]

I think nearly all those who were undecided going in were not there to be swayed by arguments on either side, but delaying their decision for political reasons (seeing which way the wind is blowing, which way other people are voting first) before deciding.

I wonder how many labour MPs will wait to make sure the vote passes, and then vote the other way, to make sure they don't get deselected at a later date.

Is there a result so bad in the Oldham by election that will make Corbyn change his tone?

[kukushkin88]

The problem is of course that any PM has to pragmatic. No PM can realistically turn round and say for example "I have principles and therefore I wont have any dealings with China because of their human rights record".

The real world doesn't work like that.

You have to deal with and trade with regimes that you don't like.

It's easy to take cheap shots on twitter.

Cameron has become the king of the cheap shots. And usually knowingly cynical ones at that. Remember the letter to the Treasury during the election? Saying that Corbyn called Bin Laden's death a tragedy? This latest terrorist sympathisers nonsense? Today he went for some odd "women raping, muslim murdering, medieval death cult" type soundbite in the commons debate. Sakes.

He increasingly talks like a Sun editorial. It's bizarre. I used to think he was a man of some honesty and integrity. I honestly don't know what to think any more. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely I guess.

Shame.

i thought his "terrorist sympathiser" comments were a mistake, as of course you cant apply that to the vast majority of MPs planning to vote against strikes today

it was a party political point pretty bluntly expressed (probably related to the by election tomorrow)

its not strictly wrong to call Crbyn and McDonnell "terrorist sympathisers" when you look at the history and pronouncements of the pair over hamas, hezbollah and the IRA though is it?

all polling says that this is a huge negative for corbyn with working class voters, and a day ahead of oldham that's what the comment is aimed at

Using war to make small political capital is plumbing a new and extraordinarily low point in modern British history.

[Doobs]

The problem is of course that any PM has to pragmatic. No PM can realistically turn round and say for example "I have principles and therefore I wont have any dealings with China because of their human rights record".

The real world doesn't work like that.

You have to deal with and trade with regimes that you don't like.

It's easy to take cheap shots on twitter.

Cameron has become the king of the cheap shots. And usually knowingly cynical ones at that. Remember the letter to the Treasury during the election? Saying that Corbyn called Bin Laden's death a tragedy? This latest terrorist sympathisers nonsense? Today he went for some odd "women raping, muslim murdering, medieval death cult" type soundbite in the commons debate. Sakes.

He increasingly talks like a Sun editorial. It's bizarre. I used to think he was a man of some honesty and integrity. I honestly don't know what to think any more. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely I guess.

Shame.

i thought his "terrorist sympathiser" comments were a mistake, as of course you cant apply that to the vast majority of MPs planning to vote against strikes today

it was a party political point pretty bluntly expressed (probably related to the by election tomorrow)

its not strictly wrong to call Crbyn and McDonnell "terrorist sympathisers" when you look at the history and pronouncements of the pair over hamas, hezbollah and the IRA though is it?

all polling says that this is a huge negative for corbyn with working class voters, and a day ahead of oldham that's what the comment is aimed at

Using war to make small political capital is plumbing a new and extraordinarily low point in modern British history.

I see what you did here. 

I can't refute your point without invoking some terrible event with loads of deaths for the sake of some small political point.

[kukushkin88]

The problem is of course that any PM has to pragmatic. No PM can realistically turn round and say for example "I have principles and therefore I wont have any dealings with China because of their human rights record".

The real world doesn't work like that.

You have to deal with and trade with regimes that you don't like.

It's easy to take cheap shots on twitter.

Cameron has become the king of the cheap shots. And usually knowingly cynical ones at that. Remember the letter to the Treasury during the election? Saying that Corbyn called Bin Laden's death a tragedy? This latest terrorist sympathisers nonsense? Today he went for some odd "women raping, muslim murdering, medieval death cult" type soundbite in the commons debate. Sakes.

He increasingly talks like a Sun editorial. It's bizarre. I used to think he was a man of some honesty and integrity. I honestly don't know what to think any more. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely I guess.

Shame.

i thought his "terrorist sympathiser" comments were a mistake, as of course you cant apply that to the vast majority of MPs planning to vote against strikes today

it was a party political point pretty bluntly expressed (probably related to the by election tomorrow)

its not strictly wrong to call Crbyn and McDonnell "terrorist sympathisers" when you look at the history and pronouncements of the pair over hamas, hezbollah and the IRA though is it?

all polling says that this is a huge negative for corbyn with working class voters, and a day ahead of oldham that's what the comment is aimed at

Using war to make small political capital is plumbing a new and extraordinarily low point in modern British history.

I see what you did here.  

I can't refute your point without invoking some terrible event with loads of deaths for the sake of some small political point.

I guess the difference is you're not actually proposing to take a country in to a war. You do make a good point though, my words are chosen poorly. What I mean is.. that it is a disgrace if a Prime Minster is thinking on any level about a by-election in Oldham when choosing his words to persuade our Parliament to go to war. AFAIK War is the worst things that happens to humans.

FWIW I think we should be joining the airstrikes but it is a massive decision that will kill a lot of people and we should have our eyes open that without comprehensive additional action it will do more harm good. The idea that it will make Britain safer is in itself a sound bite only interested in gaining political capital. How could he come to the conclusion that it will make Britain safer? The situation is littered with unknowns and uncertainties, surely one of the only things we know is that it will not make us safer.

[Woodsey]

Want a reporter on thr ground? lol had no idea I was staying just across the road from here today of all days

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Fuck it, I'm off for a pint.

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[DaveShoelace]

Anyone just see Hilary Benn? Brilliant speech, get Corbyn out and get that fella in charge.

[kukushkin88]

You should have mentioned you were in London, we might have had a civilised discussion over a pint rather than a sad war of words on the internet.

[kukushkin88]

Anyone just see Hilary Benn? Brilliant speech, get Corbyn out and get that fella in charge.

Chip off the old block. I read every word his dad wrote and he was so proud of Hilary.

[horseplayer]

Anyone just see Hilary Benn? Brilliant speech, get Corbyn out and get that fella in charge.

Chip off the old block. I read every word his dad wrote and he was so proud of Hilary.

Just a superb speech best i have ever heard

[DaveShoelace]

And he literally sat on Corbyn afterwards

[TightEnd]

Looked a leader in the making. Unfortunately Corbyn is going nowhere with the membership support

[AndrewT]

Benn was 7/1 to be next leader this morning - 9/2 now.