The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[kukushkin88]

@MarinaHyde

My bit on Karen Bradley, and another triumphant week in the government of all the talentless

Karen Bradley routs her rival imbeciles with Ladybird guide to Northern Ireland

:-)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/07/karen-bradley-northern-ireland-secretary-tories?CMP=share_btn_tw

It’s her best work I reckon, really enjoyed that :-)

[Woodsey]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45438855

Guess it seems inevitable that there will be a split in the Labour Party at some point, there’s no way Jezza or any left wing labour party is getting elected. Good news for the Tories I suppose while they are in such a mess as well.

What’s their best chance? Breaking away and teaming up with the Lib Dem’s?

[kukushkin88]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45438855

Guess it seems inevitable that there will be a split in the Labour Party at some point, there’s no way Jezza or any left wing labour party is getting elected. Good news for the Tories I suppose while they are in such a mess as well.

What’s their best chance? Breaking away and teaming up with the Lib Dem’s?

Big Labour split looks highly likely. Theresa’s ‘Brexit means Remain’ will cause a massive split on the right as well though. Good news for the left. We need to get away from thinking about it being between two sides though, if we can. What would be best for the country? Broad coalition?

[MANTIS01]

The Government has openly admitted that a no-deal Brexit will mean austerity 2.0 - wonder if people who voted for Brexit to stop immigration think it is public services taking another drastic hit is a price worth paying.?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-no-deal-cuts-operation-yellowhammer-eu-philip-hammond-latest-photo-chancellor-a8526046.html

As each new fact emerges it's used to harangue Leave voters for their decision from 2yrs ago. Yet the price of Brexit wasn't revealed in advance or presented to the voting public. In fact most people would say the thing they remember most was that brexit bus with bonus jackpot payments to public services. A perplexing decision to hold a referendum and a very lazy, sloppy performance by all political parties to present facts caused the current situation.

Anyway, I figure people voted Leave for some passionate reasons. Let's say it was to regain a sense of freedom or self-determination (nomatter how deluded that might be). Do you think stubborn Brits are going to set aside their principles because of some more austerity? It's a shame the EU think drastic cuts to public services is a price worth paying.

[kukushkin88]

The Government has openly admitted that a no-deal Brexit will mean austerity 2.0 - wonder if people who voted for Brexit to stop immigration think it is public services taking another drastic hit is a price worth paying.?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-no-deal-cuts-operation-yellowhammer-eu-philip-hammond-latest-photo-chancellor-a8526046.html

As each new fact emerges it's used to harangue Leave voters for their decision from 2yrs ago. Yet the price of Brexit wasn't revealed in advance or presented to the voting public. In fact most people would say the thing they remember most was that brexit bus with bonus jackpot payments to public services. A perplexing decision to hold a referendum and a very lazy, sloppy performance by all political parties to present facts caused the current situation.

Anyway, I figure people voted Leave for some passionate reasons. Let's say it was to regain a sense of freedom or self-determination (nomatter how deluded that might be). Do you think stubborn Brits are going to set aside their principles because of some more austerity? It's a shame the EU think drastic cuts to public services is a price worth paying.

Say you’re saying democracy is bad because most people are stubborn, ill informed and dumb? What other system should we use?

[kukushkin88]

The Government has openly admitted that a no-deal Brexit will mean austerity 2.0 - wonder if people who voted for Brexit to stop immigration think it is public services taking another drastic hit is a price worth paying.?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-no-deal-cuts-operation-yellowhammer-eu-philip-hammond-latest-photo-chancellor-a8526046.html

As each new fact emerges it's used to harangue Leave voters for their decision from 2yrs ago. Yet the price of Brexit wasn't revealed in advance or presented to the voting public. In fact most people would say the thing they remember most was that brexit bus with bonus jackpot payments to public services. A perplexing decision to hold a referendum and a very lazy, sloppy performance by all political parties to present facts caused the current situation.

Anyway, I figure people voted Leave for some passionate reasons. Let's say it was to regain a sense of freedom or self-determination (nomatter how deluded that might be). Do you think stubborn Brits are going to set aside their principles because of some more austerity? It's a shame the EU think drastic cuts to public services is a price worth paying.

Say you’re saying democracy is bad because most people are stubborn, ill informed and dumb? What other system should we use?

and what should we do if the stubborn, dumb and ill informed support the interests of the people who provide the information (and make them rich)?

[MANTIS01]

I’m not calling anybody dumb.

That’s your department mate.

[kukushkin88]

I’m not calling anybody dumb.

That’s your department mate.

OK, you’re saying Leave voters were/are ill informed and stubborn, I’m saying allowing yourself to be those things is dumb. Seems like you’re saying democracy is flawed, for this reason. Maybe we’d be better off if we (the electorate) were responsible for electing the government and they made decisions that were too difficult for about 51.9% of us?

[Pokerpops]

I’m not calling anybody dumb.

That’s your department mate.

OK, you’re saying Leave voters were/are ill informed and stubborn, I’m saying allowing yourself to be those things is dumb. Seems like you’re saying democracy is flawed, for this reason. Maybe we’d be better off if we (the electorate) were responsible for electing the government and they made decisions that were too difficult for about 51.9% of us?

We tried that and ended up with a succession of governments who were one, or all, of the following; ill informed, stubborn and venal. All led by self-serving dickheads.

So now, democracy has led us to today’s position where our choice in an election tomorrow is between a government led by Theresa May and one led by Jeremy Corbyn.

Forget the arguments about how we might do after whatever Brexit deal is done. Ask yourself how the fuck did we get here?

Then ask yourself how we get to change things.

[nirvana]

@MarinaHyde

My bit on Karen Bradley, and another triumphant week in the government of all the talentless

Karen Bradley routs her rival imbeciles with Ladybird guide to Northern Ireland

:-)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/07/karen-bradley-northern-ireland-secretary-tories?CMP=share_btn_tw

It’s her best work I reckon, really enjoyed that :-)

Yep. Wish I could write like that

[TightEnd]

Brexit secretary under fire from Michel Barnier over Irish border issue

The EU negotiator was said to be “disappointed and irritated” by Raab’s alleged failure this week to live up to a promise to provide data on the trade flows between the UK and Northern Ireland, which had been requested as part of an attempt to take the drama out of the Irish border issue.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/07/brexit-secretary-under-fire-from-michel-barnier-on-irish-border-issue

[TightEnd]

unedifying stuff

Boris Johnson compares Chequers deal to 'suicide vest'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45462900

[TightEnd]

Lib Dems can't fill centre vacuum – because voters want "change" & they're "more of the same"

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/vince-cable-centre-party-tony-blair-lib-dems-a8528791.html

[TightEnd]

As rumours grow that Karen Bradley may be moved to Defra, officials start to rehearse their briefings

[TightEnd]

Sam coates on Andrew Marr that Boris’s “suicide vest” comments are a classic Lynton Crosby trick to distract our attention from the Blonde Aide stories about his private life. It’s called a “dead cat”, he says.