The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[MintTrav]

The government is chartering ships to avoid catastrophic shortages and people like teddybloat think they should be treated like delicate little princesses, you couldn't make it up.

At least live with your idiotic decision and stop whining abut the other side.  History will utterly revile you, so try your best to enjoy your remaining time.

In response to an eloquent post by Teddybloat, you come back with that?

Really ? Perhaps it shows where the real intolarance lies.

Up there as one of the worst post on here in 2018 and that’s saying something.

Rick knows what he's talking about, having authored one of the worst posts of 2017:

I get the impression the commentators (and plenty on here) are looking forward to seeing bad economic news, like a pack of hungry wolves hunting prey.

So nice to see inflation fall today from 2.9% to 2.6%.

Didn't see the 64,000 drop in unemployment figures, now lowest since 1975, mentioned by anyone here in last week either.

I'm sure there will be plenty of gloating when bad news comes.

[Woodsey]

The government is chartering ships to avoid catastrophic shortages and people like teddybloat think they should be treated like delicate little princesses, you couldn't make it up.

At least live with your idiotic decision and stop whining abut the other side.  History will utterly revile you, so try your best to enjoy your remaining time.

In response to an eloquent post by Teddybloat, you come back with that?

Really ? Perhaps it shows where the real intolarance lies.

Up there as one of the worst post on here in 2018 and that’s saying something.

Rick knows what he's talking about, having authored one of the worst posts of 2017:

I get the impression the commentators (and plenty on here) are looking forward to seeing bad economic news, like a pack of hungry wolves hunting prey.

So nice to see inflation fall today from 2.9% to 2.6%.

Didn't see the 64,000 drop in unemployment figures, now lowest since 1975, mentioned by anyone here in last week either.

I'm sure there will be plenty of gloating when bad news comes.

Are you a night shift security guard or something? You always post in the middle of the night.....

Before you ask I just woke up for a piss....

[kukushkin88]

The government is chartering ships to avoid catastrophic shortages and people like teddybloat think they should be treated like delicate little princesses, you couldn't make it up.

At least live with your idiotic decision and stop whining abut the other side.  History will utterly revile you, so try your best to enjoy your remaining time.

In response to an eloquent post by Teddybloat, you come back with that?

Really ? Perhaps it shows where the real intolarance lies.

Up there as one of the worst post on here in 2018 and that’s saying something.

Rick knows what he's talking about, having authored one of the worst posts of 2017:

I get the impression the commentators (and plenty on here) are looking forward to seeing bad economic news, like a pack of hungry wolves hunting prey.

So nice to see inflation fall today from 2.9% to 2.6%.

Didn't see the 64,000 drop in unemployment figures, now lowest since 1975, mentioned by anyone here in last week either.

I'm sure there will be plenty of gloating when bad news comes.

Are you a night shift security guard or something? You always post in the middle of the night.....

Before you ask I just woke up for a piss....

Or maybe.....

https://wonderopolis.org/wonder/why-do-we-have-different-time-zones

[kukushkin88]

In terms of balance prob makes a difference that the main man moderator tells people to fuck off and his political sidekick is a drunken troll. Folk undoubtedly keep opposing views to themselves.

Just saying if you lay the economic argument on super thick there needs to be recognition of economic opportunity. Humanitarian issues is a different subject. 

So you think people should just accept your relentless ignorance?

Let’s look at just this post, although everything you post is pretty vulnerable to criticism.

1: Tighty and myself disagree about nearly everything politically.
2: I’m not really a troll and spend <1% of my life drunk.
3: I actively encourage people with different views to post, so does Tighty.

As always you’re wrong about nearly everything, mostly in ways we can provide evidence to establish a decent standard of proof. Number 2, we can’t but I’m not sure we need to ( the reasonable people can have my word on it) I personally think drunkenly abusing the trolls very occasionally is not so bad, there are certainly worse vices.

On the ‘economic argument’, it’s about net result isn’t it. If bad outweighs good, that’s bad. (no numbers, to accommodate your preference)

I usually agree with most of what you write, but that seems like a dangerous utilitarian view that I’m surprised to see from you.

I think I oversimplified, (M01) was the target audience. I will explain later but I’m about 30 secs away from running out of battery.

On this, I guess the point I was trying to make was that better trading figures with some countries count for little if they are offset/more than offset by worse figures with others, from a pure profit/loss point of view. To keep the discussion simple, I ignored the multitude of reasons why trade with some countries is preferential to trade with others (there will be some reasons I don’t fully understand/am not aware of, I’m sure)

[kukushkin88]

In terms of balance prob makes a difference that the main man moderator tells people to fuck off and his political sidekick is a drunken troll. Folk undoubtedly keep opposing views to themselves.

Just saying if you lay the economic argument on super thick there needs to be recognition of economic opportunity. Humanitarian issues is a different subject. 

So you think people should just accept your relentless ignorance?

Let’s look at just this post, although everything you post is pretty vulnerable to criticism.

1: Tighty and myself disagree about nearly everything politically.
2: I’m not really a troll and spend <1% of my life drunk.
3: I actively encourage people with different views to post, so does Tighty.

As always you’re wrong about nearly everything, mostly in ways we can provide evidence to establish a decent standard of proof. Number 2, we can’t but I’m not sure we need to ( the reasonable people can have my word on it) I personally think drunkenly abusing the trolls very occasionally is not so bad, there are certainly worse vices.

On the ‘economic argument’, it’s about net result isn’t it. If bad outweighs good, that’s bad. (no numbers, to accommodate your preference)

I usually agree with most of what you write, but that seems like a dangerous utilitarian view that I’m surprised to see from you.

I think I oversimplified, (M01) was the target audience. I will explain later but I’m about 30 secs away from running out of battery.

On this, I guess the point I was trying to make was that better trading figures with some countries count for little if they are offset/more than offset by worse figures with others, from a pure profit/loss point of view. To keep the discussion simple, I ignored the multitude of reasons why trade with some countries is preferential to trade with others (there will be some reasons I don’t fully understand/am not aware of, I’m sure)

I also recognise “pure profit/loss” doesn’t come close to doing justice to the complexities involved in international trade.

[RickBFA]

The government is chartering ships to avoid catastrophic shortages and people like teddybloat think they should be treated like delicate little princesses, you couldn't make it up.

At least live with your idiotic decision and stop whining abut the other side.  History will utterly revile you, so try your best to enjoy your remaining time.

In response to an eloquent post by Teddybloat, you come back with that?

Really ? Perhaps it shows where the real intolarance lies.

Up there as one of the worst post on here in 2018 and that’s saying something.

Rick knows what he's talking about, having authored one of the worst posts of 2017:

I get the impression the commentators (and plenty on here) are looking forward to seeing bad economic news, like a pack of hungry wolves hunting prey.

So nice to see inflation fall today from 2.9% to 2.6%.

Didn't see the 64,000 drop in unemployment figures, now lowest since 1975, mentioned by anyone here in last week either.

I'm sure there will be plenty of gloating when bad news comes.

I’m sure i’ve written some misjudged stuff before but that isn’t one of them.

Fancy someone mentioning some facts on here eh? Awful.

Bit suprised that’s the best one you can find.

[MANTIS01]

British people don’t want uncontrolled immigration

British people want sovereignty

It really isn’t complex

[Doobs]

Some people don’t want uncontrolled immigration

Some people want sovereignty

It really isn’t complex

FYP.  Seems like it was too complex for you.   You don't speak for British people, just yourself.  People had all kinds of different reasons to vote Brexit. 

FWIW We never had uncontrolled immigration and it is up in the air what kind of immigration we get in the future.  I suspect a big chunk of the same people who were unhappy with "immigration" before will stil be unhappy with it in the future.

[StuartHopkin]

Some people don’t want uncontrolled immigration

Some people want sovereignty

It really isn’t complex

FYP.  Seems like it was too complex for you.   You don't speak for British people, just yourself.  People had all kinds of different reasons to vote Brexit. 

FWIW We never had uncontrolled immigration and it is up in the air what kind of immigration we get in the future.  I suspect a big chunk of the same people who were unhappy with "immigration" before will stil be unhappy with it in the future.

100% this

Leave won because many of Mantis's favourite British people wanted to stop immigration from outside the EU, they just didn't realise the difference.

[kukushkin88]

Some people don’t want uncontrolled immigration

Some people want sovereignty

It really isn’t complex

FYP.  Seems like it was too complex for you.   You don't speak for British people, just yourself.  People had all kinds of different reasons to vote Brexit. 

FWIW We never had uncontrolled immigration and it is up in the air what kind of immigration we get in the future.  I suspect a big chunk of the same people who were unhappy with "immigration" before will stil be unhappy with it in the future.

and our sovereignty wasn’t compromised in any meaningful sense by our membership of the EU. It will to some extent be compromised now and for a still undefined period going forward though, due to trade dependency. They just tell us what to do now, for a while.

[MANTIS01]

The majority of British people don’t want uncontrolled immigration

The majority of British people want sovereignty

It really isn’t complex

[Tal]

Some people don’t want uncontrolled immigration

Some people want sovereignty

It really isn’t complex

FYP.  Seems like it was too complex for you.   You don't speak for British people, just yourself.  People had all kinds of different reasons to vote Brexit. 

FWIW We never had uncontrolled immigration and it is up in the air what kind of immigration we get in the future.  I suspect a big chunk of the same people who were unhappy with "immigration" before will stil be unhappy with it in the future.

and our sovereignty wasn’t compromised in any meaningful sense by our membership of the EU. It will to some extent be compromised now and for a still undefined period going forward though, due to trade dependency. They just tell us what to do now, for a while.

Would you explain this, please? How can the practicalities of trade and exit negotiations impinge on the principle of the UK's parliamentary and national sovereignty?

Surely the act of exiting the EU is the ultimate demonstration of national sovereignty, whether you agree with the exercise or not?

This seems like a conflation of principle and practice.

[kukushkin88]

The majority of British people don’t want uncontrolled immigration

The majority of British people want sovereignty

It really isn’t complex

The top two might be true, we have no way of knowing. The bottom one is just wrong as evidenced by the discussion on the topic so far today and the list of additional complications, one of which is detailed below.

https://fullfact.org/europe/was-eu-referendum-advisory/

[kukushkin88]

Some people don’t want uncontrolled immigration

Some people want sovereignty

It really isn’t complex

FYP.  Seems like it was too complex for you.   You don't speak for British people, just yourself.  People had all kinds of different reasons to vote Brexit. 

FWIW We never had uncontrolled immigration and it is up in the air what kind of immigration we get in the future.  I suspect a big chunk of the same people who were unhappy with "immigration" before will stil be unhappy with it in the future.

and our sovereignty wasn’t compromised in any meaningful sense by our membership of the EU. It will to some extent be compromised now and for a still undefined period going forward though, due to trade dependency. They just tell us what to do now, for a while.

Would you explain this, please? How can the practicalities of trade and exit negotiations impinge on the principle of the UK's parliamentary and national sovereignty?

Surely the act of exiting the EU is the ultimate demonstration of national sovereignty, whether you agree with the exercise or not?

This seems like a conflation of principle and practice.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/02/16/long-read-brexit-and-the-sovereignty-of-parliament-a-backbenchers-view/

It’s clearly complicated, cliffs:

We will still be subject to EU laws and judicatures. We will no longer have a say over what they are.

[RED-DOG]

Do you think we can file this pic under Nostalgia?

Click to see full-size image.