The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[BigAdz]

I totally accept what you and SH are saying, but my point on the back of the previous comment was, i think we are perhaps missing a trick by not giving it some "hang on fellas, if this was you, wouldn't you want it a bit fairer? We joined in and it worked for a long time, but now we are thinking this isn't working, so let us go and be reasonable, not make us pariahs...it could be you next.." sort of thing.

[BigAdz]

btw could the leavers please explain what they are going to do with this reclaimed sovereignty and how it will make their lives better, tyia.

So no answer

in other words

The majority of British people want sovereignty

is drivel

speaking purely for myself, but when everything you contribute here is outright rudeness, I can't be bothered to give you any more time than this.

[MANTIS01]

btw could the leavers please explain what they are going to do with this reclaimed sovereignty and how it will make their lives better, tyia.

So no answer

in other words

The majority of British people want sovereignty

is drivel

I read a couple of books from deep thinkers who said that countries are purely fictitious and if you extracted humans from the mix they would just be masses of land. Everything about a country from currencies and customs to traditions and companies are merely what people make them. So in all reality sovereignty is purely a state of mind. People feel pride in a mass of land, people go and fight until the death to defend a rock in the sea. Go figure?

Yet this is how people roll. Take religion, makes no logical sense, but it's a fantasy which offers billions very real direction and comfort. Try telling a Hindu that worshipping all those Gods makes no logical sense on paper. There are loads of things that transcend logic and make little economic sense in a world full of people. You would need to offer a disproportional amount of money to stop people supporting their football team, stop practising their religion, stop loving the girl of their dreams. This is why the continual presentation of economic factors by Remoan is a bewilderment to me. Anyway we are super lucky to have a luxurious, decadent lifestyle in this country and losing a small % of privilege will be no real hardship and it might bring other benefits like making our arrogant selves more humble. That's before we begin to explore the economic opportunities available. 

So to answer your question about this conceptual sovereignty. I would walk a little taller whilst perhaps enjoying a bendy banana. I would feel a little more free, happier. The argument that Brexit is unfair because unlike a general election it can't be reversed in a few years must work the other way too. If I don't like the rules and regulations the EU impose when do I get a chance to change them? Sovereignty allows me the freedom to vote for another government who may present different rules and regulations more to my taste. Under the current system I never get a say in EU directives or the people that make them.

If you think the majority of people want uncontrolled immigration and no sovereignty I don't know how you explain the referendum result. Your question kinda lol sounds like what the Confederate States asked black slaves. What's the point of having your freedom? You still gotta work and find somewhere to live which will be very tough out there in the world. So what's the point in having your freedom? Makes no economical sense really. Even so I bet their state of mind improved no end.

[kukushkin88]

On the sovereignty one, I’m not aware that they’ve changed their position since this. Basically coming back to the ‘we are subject to rules that constantly change “EU acquis’”and over which we have no control’ angle.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/eu-ministers-uk-gets-no-say-over-blocs-rules-during-brexit-transition/amp/

The best argument is that sovereignty hasn't changed at any point, at least on its most pure level: we can choose to come and go. The practical and political consequences of those choices are what's changing and what affects how these decisions work.

Those saying we are reclaiming sovereignty disagree with this statement just as strongly as those saying we lose a bit of it by deciding to leave.

Definitely good to have you in the discussion, maybe cause for a rethink or certainly a rewording.

Surely it’s reasonable to say that, at the moment we have no loss of sovereignty. During the transition phase, during which we are subject to laws over which we have no say (this seems to be an EU red line as per the Politico report), we have less sovereignty. We have little idea what comes after that but we can say it is likely to be more sovereignty.

My initial comment was that sovereignty “will be compromised to some extent, for an as yet undefined period of time”. With the length of the transition period still an unknown, I think my statement is accurate.

[MintTrav]

The government is chartering ships to avoid catastrophic shortages and people like teddybloat think they should be treated like delicate little princesses, you couldn't make it up.

At least live with your idiotic decision and stop whining abut the other side.  History will utterly revile you, so try your best to enjoy your remaining time.

In response to an eloquent post by Teddybloat, you come back with that?

Really ? Perhaps it shows where the real intolarance lies.

Up there as one of the worst post on here in 2018 and that’s saying something.

Rick knows what he's talking about, having authored one of the worst posts of 2017:

I get the impression the commentators (and plenty on here) are looking forward to seeing bad economic news, like a pack of hungry wolves hunting prey.

So nice to see inflation fall today from 2.9% to 2.6%.

Didn't see the 64,000 drop in unemployment figures, now lowest since 1975, mentioned by anyone here in last week either.

I'm sure there will be plenty of gloating when bad news comes.

I’m sure i’ve written some misjudged stuff before but that isn’t one of them.

Fancy someone mentioning some facts on here eh? Awful.

Bit suprised that’s the best one you can find.

I remember this one for its dishonesty. Suggesting that others will do the very thing you are doing yourself and calling them out in advance for doing what you are the only one actually doing is very clever. I have never seen anyone gloating about bad news. No-one wants the country to fail. The only gloating seems to occur from your side whenever there is a favourable bit of economic news. This one was particularly misplaced as the fall in inflation was entirely due to world energy prices and nothing to do with UK activity. I thought at the time it was one of the most dishonest posts I had ever seen, but let it pass. Now I see you branding someone else, I am doing the same to you.

[tikay]

Am I the only one that thinks we need Tighty back itt?

[Tal]

Am I the only one that thinks we need Tighty back itt?

Send for Mr Raab to negotiate a return, please.

#Texit

[BigAdz]

The government is chartering ships to avoid catastrophic shortages and people like teddybloat think they should be treated like delicate little princesses, you couldn't make it up.

At least live with your idiotic decision and stop whining abut the other side.  History will utterly revile you, so try your best to enjoy your remaining time.

In response to an eloquent post by Teddybloat, you come back with that?

Really ? Perhaps it shows where the real intolarance lies.

Up there as one of the worst post on here in 2018 and that’s saying something.

Rick knows what he's talking about, having authored one of the worst posts of 2017:

I get the impression the commentators (and plenty on here) are looking forward to seeing bad economic news, like a pack of hungry wolves hunting prey.

So nice to see inflation fall today from 2.9% to 2.6%.

Didn't see the 64,000 drop in unemployment figures, now lowest since 1975, mentioned by anyone here in last week either.

I'm sure there will be plenty of gloating when bad news comes.

I’m sure i’ve written some misjudged stuff before but that isn’t one of them.

Fancy someone mentioning some facts on here eh? Awful.

Bit suprised that’s the best one you can find.

I remember this one for its dishonesty. Suggesting that others will do the very thing you are doing yourself and calling them out in advance for doing what you are the only one actually doing is very clever. I have never seen anyone gloating about bad news. No-one wants the country to fail. The only gloating seems to occur from your side whenever there is a favourable bit of economic news. This one was particularly misplaced as the fall in inflation was entirely due to world energy prices and nothing to do with UK activity. I thought at the time it was one of the most dishonest posts I had ever seen, but let it pass. Now I see you branding someone else, I am doing the same to you.

I'm sorry Mint, but have to pull you up on that technicality.

Without even having to think, I think we can say Tighty seems to revel in some of his clippings posts about the POTENTIAL bad news(not actual)that Brexit may cause. Its not just Tighty. The remainers on here have generally enjoyed posting anything that means they can give it a "told you so" "There you go, knew it" or "I said this would happen, now I have a newspaper article backing it up".

That said plenty of us Leavers have also gloated when we have some news that swings towards our viewpoint.

If you are missing the tone, you are a very monochrome chappie indeed

[RED-DOG]

I wish Tighty would come back wearing his thicker skin. Of course he's going to get dissent, accusation and name calling on here, it forms a huge part of the leave argument.

 

[MANTIS01]

I wish Tighty would come back wearing his thicker skin. Of course he's going to get dissent, accusation and name calling on here, it forms a huge part of the leave argument.

 

If you dish it out you got to be big enough to take it...

Anyway, now he's not trawling t'internet searching for negative Brexit stories he'll have time to update the homepage

[MANTIS01]

Argentina looking to exploit Brexit and further their claims to the Falklands.

No Lisbon treaty means EU states would not be obligated to support us and the Argies are seeking to take advantage

Yep because that European support in 1982 made all the difference

[MANTIS01]

Phillip Hammond set to announce £1.5b boost to high street retailers in the budget. Half a million businesses set to benefit from tax cuts. Nice one.

[Woodsey]

Phillip Hammond set to announce £1.5b boost to high street retailers in the budget. Half a million businesses set to benefit from tax cuts. Nice one.

Need to go further imo, online shopping is killing the high st, they need to level the playing field. I confess I’m also guilty of the ease of a few clicks online to get whatever you want delivered at a cheaper price. Equally I’m sick of how crappy our high st has become with the ever increasing number of charity shops, they have their place but enough’s enough.

[RED-DOG]

Phillip Hammond set to announce £1.5b boost to high street retailers in the budget. Half a million businesses set to benefit from tax cuts. Nice one.

Need to go further imo, online shopping is killing the high st, they need to level the playing field. I confess I’m also guilty of the ease of a few clicks online to get whatever you want delivered at a cheaper price. Equally I’m sick of how crappy our high st has become with the ever increasing number of charity shops, they have their place but enough’s enough.

I'm not sure about this but if bricks & mortar shops can't compete with online without subsidy isn't it best to let them go?

Happy to be persuaded otherwise but it seems like the Luddites all over again to me.

[bobAlike]

Phillip Hammond set to announce £1.5b boost to high street retailers in the budget. Half a million businesses set to benefit from tax cuts. Nice one.

Need to go further imo, online shopping is killing the high st, they need to level the playing field. I confess I’m also guilty of the ease of a few clicks online to get whatever you want delivered at a cheaper price. Equally I’m sick of how crappy our high st has become with the ever increasing number of charity shops, they have their place but enough’s enough.

I'm not sure about this but if bricks & mortar shops can't compete with online without subsidy isn't it best to let them go?

Happy to be persuaded otherwise but it seems like the Luddites all over again to me.

I think I'm with the Dog on this one although maybe for different reasons, let them close and let the greedy councils and landlords feel the pinch for charging too much in rent/rates.