The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[TightEnd]

a proper scoop

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1148895532334682112

Putin funding far right nationalists

[Doobs]

a proper scoop

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1148895532334682112

Putin funding far right nationalists

...again?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/25/why-wont-nigel-farage-answer-my-brexit-questions

[TightEnd]

Kim Darroch resigns, a selfless decision given that he has done nothing wrong

Boris presumably appoints someone Trump friendly for our "special relationship"

[TightEnd]

Still At some point soon, Boris is going to be standing at a podium next to Trump, and a journalist is going to ask Trump if he agrees with Johnson (2017, on record) that he is “stupifyingly ignorant” and “totally unfit for the job of President.”

Something to look forward to whatever your political views.

[MANTIS01]

Kim Darroch resigns, a selfless decision given that he has done nothing wrong

Boris presumably appoints someone Trump friendly for our "special relationship"

Hmm don’t agree. Think his opinions were scathing and personal full stop rather than communicating the key to a successful approach. So rather than this guy is terrible, which offers nothing progressive, notes about how to achieve objectives with a certain type of character is helpful. In addition if your use of such terminology and the exposure of it jeopardises successful relationships then you are the catalyst for deterioration of relationships, the very opposite of what you’re paid to do.

[TightEnd]

Expressing those opinions privately and securely is his job. Same as any other ambassador.

He did it. Was the subject of a malicious leak. Boris then refused to support him. At that point the game is up. Terrible precedent

Whole thing is a national humiliation.

[TightEnd]

Bloomberg's take

a good one i think

"British Diplomat Gets Run Over by the Brexit Bus. Kim Darroch's memos aren't shocking because of what they say about Donald Trump. What the leak says about the state of U.K. politics is worse."

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-07-08/diplomatic-leak-u-k-ambassador-to-u-s-kim-darroch-brexit-victim

[MANTIS01]

Expressing those opinions privately and securely is his job. Same as any other ambassador.

He did it. Was the subject of a malicious leak. Boris then refused to support him. At that point the game is up. Terrible precedent

Whole thing is a national humiliation.

Let’s say I chair a private meeting with all managers. I can say that x employee is terrible and inept/stupid. What have I achieved? Only skunked my negativity around the group. There is a chance my words could be leaked and now I have a fucked off, terrible and inept/stupid employee. Would prefer to say here is our tactic to improve a situation.

No way can Boris support him. With a thin-skinned orange baby like Trump it would cost the country a desperately needed trade deal. And don’t forget we can’t put principles ahead of economics can we...

[TightEnd]

Effectiively then, Taking back control by allowing Trump to choose our ambassador.....so as to get a trade deal.

Great times.

[Mark_Porter]

Kim Darroch resigns, a selfless decision given that he has done nothing wrong

Boris presumably appoints someone Trump friendly for our "special relationship"

Hmm don’t agree. Think his opinions were scathing and personal full stop rather than communicating the key to a successful approach. So rather than this guy is terrible, which offers nothing progressive, notes about how to achieve objectives with a certain type of character is helpful. In addition if your use of such terminology and the exposure of it jeopardises successful relationships then you are the catalyst for deterioration of relationships, the very opposite of what you’re paid to do.

His emails were doing exactly that - communicating they key to a successful approach.

- Get as many influencers around Trump as possible
- Get the PM to ring Trump 2-3 times a month
- Get members of parliament to praise Trump at every opportunity

Within those points he was outlining why they are the right approach - Trump administration is dysfunctional and insecure.

Whoever leaked this is a disgrace.

[MANTIS01]

Effectiively then, Taking back control by allowing Trump to choose our ambassador.....so as to get a trade deal.

Great times.

Well he’s not choosing our ambassador is he.

He’s saying not prepared to deal with this guy.

The solutions are to change the guy or get Trump to have a different character.

How the EU leaders are selected and how the new PM is selected not phased by this really.

And certainly is a national disgrace but Team UK have been sabotaging ourselves for over 3yrs now so grown accustomed to it.

[TightEnd]

Sabotages are

(added later..) decision to call referendum and method of referendum without defined choices beyond a simplistic binary decision
Voting leave (and appalling remain campaign)
Possible overseas interference in leave campaign
Leave campaign electoral offences
Triggering A50 without a plan
Calling election and losing majority
Failing to vote subsequent "best of a bad job" through three times

Sabotages to come, possible or probably

Boris
No deal?
Hung parliament again, possible worse parliamentary logjam?
Years of trade deal negotiations

A lot self-inflicted, mostly from the leave side. Incompetence of many on remain side hasn't helped either

[MANTIS01]

Agree with all of those.

The most glaring two being from Remain...

An effective pre-referendum campaign makes everything else redundant.

Post referendum a united acceptance of the outcome affords a better deal which is passed

[TightEnd]

Post referendum a united acceptance of the outcome affords a better deal which is passed

is difficult because

decision to call referendum and method of referendum without defined choices beyond a simplistic binary decision
Possible overseas interference in leave campaign
Leave campaign electoral offences

and also, May's approach wasn't conciliatory towards those who lost. Immediately she went on no freedom of movement (appeasing her right wing, though it didn't make any difference)  Brexit means Brexit was also bollocks. No one knew which of many different Brexits they'd voted for

[MANTIS01]

tbf another grave act of self sabotage was not getting unity before triggering Article 50

We couldn’t have fucked it up any harder. May shudda listened to Trumps advice.

Anyway as we survey the political devastation our leaders have delivered just can’t see why giving optimistic Boris a seat on the carousel is very bad