The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Woodsey]

I can’t recall having seen any mention of Turkey joining the EU during the referendum campaign.

I’m not saying they didn’t happen, just that I don’t think I saw any.

I bet you remember the lie coming from key remainers about dire economic consequences and the need to have an emergency budget should leave win 

£60bn of quantitative easing in the two months after the referendum was instituted to mitigate against dire economic consequences, and removed the need for an emergency budget

As people don't understand what it is (printing money, buying gilts etc) and it wasn't publicised hugely (as people wouldn't understand what it is) the idea that the pre-ref prognostications are seen as a lie persists

It was and will always be case unproven

if we no deal they have £50bn earmarked to do the same

Consequences of the extra borrowing will be felt by people in the years ahead but will be necessary to avoid a nasty exogenous shock

 

So it was a lie then 

No it wasn't. Pre-referendum an emergency budget was what Osborne was planning. Without the QE there would have been dire economic consequences. If we are out with no deal there will be 1 Nov onwards without another stimulus package

Mark Carney has done a sensational job, but is still derided by the fanatics as some sort of Jonah.

Please read what i wrote. disagree by all means but being obtuse is just frustrating

You are like a politician, trying to divert the conversation to suit you.

Sure Mark Carney took his own action, but the Osborne’s emergency budget did not happen so he lied, just admit it and move on FFS!

no i am not diverting anything, continuing on my never ending and futile quest to get people like you to see through the fog and not take "it was a lie" at face value

i really will never learn that it is impossible :-)

You should go and work for one of those re-education camps in China 

[MANTIS01]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Gibbon

serious sensible journalist. his interpretation and the extract is his writing not mine

Yep, I know it's his words mate

But this is where the posting links to prove a point strategy fails

You post a link to Wiki whereas I read his words and draw my own conclusions

That "whites only" baloney means 'serious and sensible' carries the same credibility as 'strong and stable' in my book

[TightEnd]

I can’t recall having seen any mention of Turkey joining the EU during the referendum campaign.

I’m not saying they didn’t happen, just that I don’t think I saw any.

I bet you remember the lie coming from key remainers about dire economic consequences and the need to have an emergency budget should leave win 

£60bn of quantitative easing in the two months after the referendum was instituted to mitigate against dire economic consequences, and removed the need for an emergency budget

As people don't understand what it is (printing money, buying gilts etc) and it wasn't publicised hugely (as people wouldn't understand what it is) the idea that the pre-ref prognostications are seen as a lie persists

It was and will always be case unproven

if we no deal they have £50bn earmarked to do the same

Consequences of the extra borrowing will be felt by people in the years ahead but will be necessary to avoid a nasty exogenous shock

 

So it was a lie then 

No it wasn't. Pre-referendum an emergency budget was what Osborne was planning. Without the QE there would have been dire economic consequences. If we are out with no deal there will be 1 Nov onwards without another stimulus package

Mark Carney has done a sensational job, but is still derided by the fanatics as some sort of Jonah.

Please read what i wrote. disagree by all means but being obtuse is just frustrating

You are like a politician, trying to divert the conversation to suit you.

Sure Mark Carney took his own action, but the Osborne’s emergency budget did not happen so he lied, just admit it and move on FFS!

no i am not diverting anything, continuing on my never ending and futile quest to get people like you to see through the fog and not take "it was a lie" at face value

i really will never learn that it is impossible :-)

You should go and work for one of those re-education camps in China 

Sorry, no free movement for me to try that

[Pokerpops]

Jonathan Powell concedes Johnson-Farage could win election landslide & calls for progressive coalition to stop them 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/27/boris-johnson-frighten-charm-eu

(sadly, unlikely, remain party co-operation very disorganised 3 years on)

Can we challenge the idea that the LibDems and JC’s Labour Party are progressive.

LDs want to remain in the EU. To hang on to the status quo. Hardly progressive.

jC wants to nationalise swathes of industry and return us to the pre-Thatcher years when the unions ran roughshod over the needs of the country. Hardly progressive.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s plan is to forge ahead as a technological and economic powerhouse.

[TightEnd]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Gibbon

serious sensible journalist. his interpretation and the extract is his writing not mine

Yep, I know it's his words mate

But this is where the posting links to prove a point strategy fails

You post a link to Wiki whereas I read his words and draw my own conclusions

That "whites only" baloney means 'serious and sensible' carries the same credibility as 'strong and stable' in my book

I am posting a wide variety of new and links. It's not a strategy to prove a point. If it was for example I wouldn't be posting boris bounce opinion polls.

It's so people can have detailed analysis on the issues as they develop, from reputable sources.

[horseplayer]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1155407807719645184

Jo Swinson here hardly convincing is it?




good stuff

bring back Vince

[MANTIS01]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Gibbon

serious sensible journalist. his interpretation and the extract is his writing not mine

Yep, I know it's his words mate

But this is where the posting links to prove a point strategy fails

You post a link to Wiki whereas I read his words and draw my own conclusions

That "whites only" baloney means 'serious and sensible' carries the same credibility as 'strong and stable' in my book

I am posting a wide variety of new and links. It's not a strategy to prove a point. If it was for example I wouldn't be posting boris bounce opinion polls.

It's so people can have detailed analysis on the issues as they develop, from reputable sources.

Yo getting too defensive mate. Not specifically on this point but generally you asked me to post links to help prove points. All I'm saying is posting a wiki link doesn't prove Gibbon is serious sensible journo when he has just offered up tripe from his own mouth. However, did enjoy the Boris bounce stuff, more of this pls, boing boing. 

[kukushkin88]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Gibbon

serious sensible journalist. his interpretation and the extract is his writing not mine

Yep, I know it's his words mate

But this is where the posting links to prove a point strategy fails

You post a link to Wiki whereas I read his words and draw my own conclusions

That "whites only" baloney means 'serious and sensible' carries the same credibility as 'strong and stable' in my book

I am posting a wide variety of new and links. It's not a strategy to prove a point. If it was for example I wouldn't be posting boris bounce opinion polls.

It's so people can have detailed analysis on the issues as they develop, from reputable sources.

Yo getting too defensive mate. Not specifically on this point but generally you asked me to post links to help prove points. All I'm saying is posting a wiki link doesn't prove Gibbon is serious sensible journo when he has just offered up tripe from his own mouth. However, did enjoy the Boris bounce stuff, more of this pls, boing boing. 

Always good to hear everyone’s opinion. It would be crazy though to think that people want to hear what people like you and Aaron think but not the view of an internationally respected journalist.

People should decide for themselves whose views are most credible.

[Doobs]

All these ads do is play on people’s genuine concerns.

Freedom of movement is a fact and it worries voters

Turkey does want to join the EU and whether that happens in the future is uncertain. So really just remove the “is” and ask “Turkey joining the EU. Good idea?” What’s the problem with that?

Remain might get hot under the collar about this playing on concerns strategy and the factual accuracy but let’s rewind to Project Fear. That was the exact strategy and it was full of inaccurate guesswork.

There genuine concern about an invasion of 78m brown people?   The EU couldn't have made it much clearer that Turkey wasn't welcome under Erdogan, and Vote Leave knew this.   Despite this Dominic Cummings put it centre stage, not just a side issue, one of the two things they absolutely chose to focus on.   

Are you not alarmed that this person is now in the centre of Government? 

Why do you always take the side of the people who run these racist campaigns?  Even Piers Morgan came out against Trump's latest racist campaigning.   Arch Brexiteer, Michael Gove came out and criticised this part of the campaign.  But you come out and say such things are justified. 

[MANTIS01]

For me the worst kind of liars are those with this faux aghast stance about lying, but if you notice they always highlight the untruths and inaccuracies of those with an opposing political agenda.

If people were genuinely opposed to lying it would transcend political agenda and lying would be highlighted whenever and wherever it was found. Why don't these people dig through the archives to unearth 1,292 inaccuracies uttered by politicians they support? Surely highlighting the lying of those most closely representing their views would be dearest to their hearts. But no, we don't see that at all do we. The shift to populist is because tradition dictates that when politicians are asked awkward questions they meander, change the subject, which is deceit.

I'm cool with lying and freely admit that all sides will lie. The Turkey manipulation plays on the fear of mass immigration and the only people putting the variable 'brown' into the mix are those seeking to dismiss the honest, genuine concerns of the electorate and manipulate back the other way. Much more a scandalous manipulation imo. Fine that EU say that Turkey wasn't welcome under current regime but that doesn't address fears of future mass immigration. Yet that concern is the only genuine thing really. So pretty glad somebody who can win manipulation is working for the gov rather than the oppos and actual racist JCorbs.

That said getting power is one thing but when in power you need to treat it preciously and in the unlikely event BoJo or anybody else passed actual racist legislation I would be horrified.

[Doobs]

It is bollocks though Mantis

I have posted plenty of criticism of Corbyn over the last few years here, and I find it pretty amusing that people think he is some bastion of anti-racism, when he had been so clearly 100% one sided on some issues. 

If you think I wasn't disgusted that labour politicians were are bad as Tory ones over the expenses scandal, you didn't read any of my posts at the time.

I think there is a big difference between getting a forecast wrong than lying about the past and making shit up.   Putting a positive spin on your argument is standard, and meh, that is politics, but I don't see much need for going beyond that.

That poster wasn't intended to appeal to people's genuine concerns, it was a deliberate lie and meant to appeal to their base instincts.

And no, my CV isn't full of lies either.

[horseplayer]

Mantis post

Praise BO JO

get a dig in at CORBS

troll a previous comment whether a good one or not it has to happen

faux outrage at the things he bangs on about on here every day coming true

[kukushkin88]

This was a good one. Went viral on social media. None of it true of course:

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong/

[aaron1867]

I can’t recall having seen any mention of Turkey joining the EU during the referendum campaign.

I’m not saying they didn’t happen, just that I don’t think I saw any.

Just a couple of weeks ago I filtered the dates on my Facebook to the weeks running upto the vote. I was actually amazed at how many people mentioned about Turkey joining the EU. I even recall a friend telling me that Turkish folk don't like people like me and I should vote to leave. Here we are 3 years later with Turkey as close to the EU as they was then.

I have said this plenty of time, but if you take the lies and hate out of the leave vote, then we wouldn't have Brexit.

[MANTIS01]

Mantis post

Praise BO JO

get a dig in at CORBS

troll a previous comment whether a good one or not it has to happen

faux outrage at the things he bangs on about on here every day coming true

I ultra disagree, very strongly