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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 13 (33.3%)
Labour - 8 (20.5%)
SNP - 1 (2.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (20.5%)
Brexit - 1 (2.6%)
Green - 2 (5.1%)
Other - 1 (2.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 5 (12.8%)
Total Voters: 39

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 908068 times)
bunnydas8888
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« Reply #21690 on: October 22, 2019, 08:18:49 PM »

Obviously the longer the extension the tighter the timetable to negotiate trade, which is already optimistic

Clause 30, trap door to no deal in Dec 2020, going to be a major issue in the path of this deal at later readings

I was unaware of this.

What exactly would trigger that?

I believe if we haven't got a trade deal in place by December 31st 2020, the default position is we leave with no deal & immediately go onto WTO terms

A trade deal with who - the EU?

Yup
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TightEnd
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« Reply #21691 on: October 22, 2019, 08:40:32 PM »

 the trapdoor to No Deal.
Clause 30 - if the Government doesn’t propose an extension to the transition, MPs have no say, & therefore if negotiations on future relationship unfinished by end of December next year, we’re out - it
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tikay
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« Reply #21692 on: October 22, 2019, 09:07:47 PM »

All makes sense now.

I was thinking by Dec 2019, so not much time at all, but 2020 is another matter altogether.

I know it's not good for the Country, but it's all rather exciting to observe.

We are off to visit Westminster tomorrow, for a general shufty, it all looks rather jolly with the flags everywhere, sort of like a street party.  We went there a month or so ago, but nothing was happening.



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tikay
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« Reply #21693 on: October 22, 2019, 09:15:57 PM »


BBC News report;


MPs seek more clarification about what the term "in limbo" means.

"The bill is not dead but it is inert," replies Speaker John Bercow.

"It is not on a journey, it is not progressing, it might be said to be static," he says.

"It is not a corpse."




I was snap-reminded of this;


 Click to see full-size image.




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« Reply #21694 on: October 22, 2019, 10:15:05 PM »

the trapdoor to No Deal.
Clause 30 - if the Government doesn’t propose an extension to the transition, MPs have no say, & therefore if negotiations on future relationship unfinished by end of December next year, we’re out - it

I think there was a last minute concession,, (in the winding up speech) to give MPs a vote on this in June 2020
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aaron1867
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« Reply #21695 on: October 22, 2019, 10:17:03 PM »

We’ve got to go to an election now.

Wrote to my MP (pointlessly) to suggest this or lose my vote.
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« Reply #21696 on: October 23, 2019, 12:12:28 AM »

the trapdoor to No Deal.
Clause 30 - if the Government doesn’t propose an extension to the transition, MPs have no say, & therefore if negotiations on future relationship unfinished by end of December next year, we’re out - it

I think there was a last minute concession,, (in the winding up speech) to give MPs a vote on this in June 2020

Indeed the Justice Sec/Lord Chancellor said that the govt intended to move an amendment which gave the House the ability to vote on whether asking for an extension was required in July 2020.

Two small points:

1. Now that the bill is in limbo, who the fuck knows?

2. This is rather grist for the mill for those who claim (rightly) that passing WAB and ‘getting Brexit done’ is the start of Brexit, not the end of it.
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« Reply #21697 on: October 23, 2019, 08:10:11 AM »

We’ve got to go to an election now.

Wrote to my MP (pointlessly) to suggest this or lose my vote.

This is absolutely not pointless, well done you for doing so.

That's what they're there for, to implement what the electorate want whether that be remain. leave, election, no election or literally anything else you can think of.

They must love it that so many people think it's pointless and therefore don't bother, it saves them having to do their job.

I wrote to my local councillor recently on a much less serious issue than brexit, there were some plans to change some local roads and it was ridiculous. I got a response and I presume partly because of lots of people writing to them they changed their minds.

That was the first time I'd ever written to them as I always thought it was pointless but it made me feel good that they did something about it even though it wasn't solely because of me of course.

I then had another even less serious issue where I was trying to get a new dustbin (the dustbin men decided mine needed to go in the wagon with my rubbish) but it proved impossible with the councils website and phone system. Honestly they're shocking and seem to have been designed with the sole purpose of making people give up.

Anyway because I'd previously had a response I thought 'sod it' and went to the local councillor. I even apologised in my email for wasting his time with such a petty matter but he stressed that it wasn't petty and that if things like this don't get escalated what can they do about it.

It's obviously highly unlikely that you'll get a personal response from your MP on this matter because they'll have hundreds or hopefully thousands of letters of a similar nature to deal with at the moment. Your letter will be read though and if enough people are writing to them saying the same thing then it will get their attention.


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« Reply #21698 on: October 23, 2019, 09:12:05 AM »

Corbyn would be mad to go for an election, but he's being backed into a corner.

Probably needs to make his mind up before PM questions at midday.
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TightEnd
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« Reply #21699 on: October 23, 2019, 09:54:59 AM »

Updated flowchart
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« Reply #21700 on: October 23, 2019, 11:33:41 AM »

We’ve got to go to an election now.

Wrote to my MP (pointlessly) to suggest this or lose my vote.

This is absolutely not pointless, well done you for doing so.

That's what they're there for, to implement what the electorate want whether that be remain. leave, election, no election or literally anything else you can think of.

They must love it that so many people think it's pointless and therefore don't bother, it saves them having to do their job.

I wrote to my local councillor recently on a much less serious issue than brexit, there were some plans to change some local roads and it was ridiculous. I got a response and I presume partly because of lots of people writing to them they changed their minds.

That was the first time I'd ever written to them as I always thought it was pointless but it made me feel good that they did something about it even though it wasn't solely because of me of course.

I then had another even less serious issue where I was trying to get a new dustbin (the dustbin men decided mine needed to go in the wagon with my rubbish) but it proved impossible with the councils website and phone system. Honestly they're shocking and seem to have been designed with the sole purpose of making people give up.

Anyway because I'd previously had a response I thought 'sod it' and went to the local councillor. I even apologised in my email for wasting his time with such a petty matter but he stressed that it wasn't petty and that if things like this don't get escalated what can they do about it.

It's obviously highly unlikely that you'll get a personal response from your MP on this matter because they'll have hundreds or hopefully thousands of letters of a similar nature to deal with at the moment. Your letter will be read though and if enough people are writing to them saying the same thing then it will get their attention.




It feels pointless, they aren't going to start voting for an election because I sent an email! I expect a generic reply regardless.
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aaron1867
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« Reply #21701 on: October 23, 2019, 11:38:16 AM »

Corbyn would be mad to go for an election, but he's being backed into a corner.

Probably needs to make his mind up before PM questions at midday.

But won't it look even worse on him if he chooses to turn down that opportunity again? I think if they turn it down again, they'll lose even more voters. I personally have come round to supporting Labour again in the last few weeks, BUT last few days I've been frustrated by them. If my MP chooses to vote against, then it's the last straw.

The frustrating thing is that now we see Labour MP's coming out for a GE, but now there's a shift in the party for a second referendum, which is miles away? Why not try and get that second referendum through a GE?

Whilst in the background is SNP is trying to make amendments to an election bill.

Should 16yo's be allowed to vote?
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« Reply #21702 on: October 23, 2019, 03:10:43 PM »


It feels pointless, they aren't going to start voting for an election because I sent an email! I expect a generic reply regardless.

Not because of you alone but if enough people keep on at them they have no choice but to take notice.

It's important that people keep badgering them. Even if you only get a generic reply from an assistant (which you will) it still matters.

Brexit / GE may be the exception to be fair as many politicians seem firmly fixed on their own ideals rather than those of their constituents.

Also if you have a labour MP I'm pretty sure they have been told to vote 'no' to anything either Brexit or GE related regardless of what the f**k their own opinion is.

Disgusting isn't it Sad
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« Reply #21703 on: October 23, 2019, 05:06:15 PM »

Corbyn would be mad to go for an election, but he's being backed into a corner.

Probably needs to make his mind up before PM questions at midday.

But won't it look even worse on him if he chooses to turn down that opportunity again? I think if they turn it down again, they'll lose even more voters. I personally have come round to supporting Labour again in the last few weeks, BUT last few days I've been frustrated by them. If my MP chooses to vote against, then it's the last straw.

The frustrating thing is that now we see Labour MP's coming out for a GE, but now there's a shift in the party for a second referendum, which is miles away? Why not try and get that second referendum through a GE?

Whilst in the background is SNP is trying to make amendments to an election bill.

Should 16yo's be allowed to vote?

On your last question, I really can't think of a single reason why it makes sense for 16 year olds to vote. I can understand why certain parties like the idea of the 16-18 demographic having a vote but, in as unbiased a way as I am capable of, I can't get positive about it.
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« Reply #21704 on: October 23, 2019, 06:49:30 PM »

The interview on PM with the Labour MP for Sunderland explaining why she voted for the WAB last night was refreshing.

I could almost bring myself to vote Labour if there were more like her.
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