The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[PokerBroker]

Labour are an absolute mess, it's fascinating that the country has voted out of the EU - 17 million or so votes.  The PM has resigned, there is an internal power struggle going on within the Tory's and still the media is flooded with Labour.  I believe that these Labour MP's who are deserting Corbyn will be punnished in event of an election.  You can't just go against the membership the way they have. It's like they haven't learnt anything from before.  

I thought coming through this any split would be within the Conservative Party.  But it seems now that Labour are defunct.  New Labour is most definitely a dead duck.  

The fact Andy Burnham is hanging on still makes me think he's going to have another run at the Leadership.  Something just doesn't sit right.

[The Camel]

Labour are an absolute mess, it's fascinating that the country has voted out of the EU - 17 million or so votes.  The PM has resigned, there is an internal power struggle going on within the Tory's and still the media is flooded with Labour.  I believe that these Labour MP's who are deserting Corbyn will be punnished in event of an election.  You can't just go against the membership the way they have. It's like they haven't learnt anything from before.  

I thought coming through this any split would be within the Conservative Party.  But it seems now that Labour are defunct.  New Labour is most definitely a dead duck.  

The fact Andy Burnham is hanging on still makes me think he's going to have another run at the Leadership.  Something just doesn't sit right.

I love Corbyn, but he isn't a leader.

He works best sitting in the back seat who shouts at the driver if he veers to far to the right.

The experiment hasn't worked, for the good of the country and the party he's got to go.

[MANTIS01]

Just for clarity I'm not advocating a move to current capital punishment systems. We get a panel of independent experts (who will always be right) to decide the fate of the accused. If found guilty the accused is immediately taken into the yard and shot in the face. Hey presto a really economically viable system.

Although I'm not actually advocating that at all. I was just trying to illustrate that often principles...such as justice...are infinitely more important than economics. And the stuff people voted for are more important than economics. Thus economics experts focussing purely on economics are simply missing a trick. That is all.

Incidentally I'm also happy for anybody to post anything about the debate but think mods exhibiting exasperation and indulging in confirmation bias against individual members and other contributors is unnecessary.

[AndrewT]

I remember reading speculation way back that the EU referendum could cause a seismic shift in UK politics, with Labour and Tories getting split apart, and maybe new parties coming to the fore and ending a century of political duopoly, but I always considered it to be just outlandish doom mongering.

But it's going to happen, isn't it?

[RedFox]

Tighty, great work on putting the media reports and assorted stuff here.

Im most impressed by the level of knowledge on Blonde in general but topics like this shows a very learned & informed level of contributor.

My oh my what a predicament we are in - too many people with their own personal agendas (me included) voted for what in my opinion is something we as the electorate should not have been given the opportunity to do as its very clear the whole EU situation is so clouded.

My partners daughters best friend is a trainee nurse (non political) and voted leave as she genuinely believed the £350 million a week savings propaganda would be invested in the NHS - now she feels it was so naive of her and feels let down by politicians and would vote remain if given the chance again.

I feel very let down by our elected government who abdicated their responsibility in permitting this vote.

Im still so confused but am I wrong in thinking that whatever happens our government will eventually act in what they feel is the best for the country and we may never leave the EU?

  

[The Camel]

I remember reading speculation way back that the EU referendum could cause a seismic shift in UK politics, with Labour and Tories getting split apart, and maybe new parties coming to the fore and ending a century of political duopoly, but I always considered it to be just outlandish doom mongering.

But it's going to happen, isn't it?

Tories have a smigeon of a chance of surviving.

Labour are toast.

[DaveShoelace]

Angela Eagle now gone too, have we mentioned that already? That seems like a very big defection.

[neeko]

The biggest irony for me is that economic performance hinges on confidence and certainty and this is what all you economic experts are undermining with your negativity.

However, that said do economics experts believe we should bring back capital punishment? It's much cheaper to kill a fella than put him in prison for life. In fact why don't we bring in Sharia Law as it's going to be much more economically viable than the present UK justice system? Why don't we just close the NHS, we would save a fortune. Why did I go to Barbados on holiday rather than Bognor Regis this year? Why do we bowl around the world fighting wars to defend democracy? It's cheaper to not bother etc etc etc.

The British people have been driven by what it means to be British. We were ignored before, concerns weren't taken seriously, now we have spoken in a democratic process the idea is to continue ignoring the people because of economics? I hate to break it to the economics experts but economics isn't the driver for the majority here, we had the courage to ignore the scare stories and threats to stand up for what we think is right. That's what it means to be British. 

Oh incidentally check out how Nicola Sturgeon walks, she's got a little bops in her step, like those guys who wear their jeans around their ankles. Most peculiar.

It's not actually - it costs 2 - 3 times more due to the legal appeals - and then you have the problem of how to administer a legal injection as drug companies won't sell you the drugs to do it.

Pissed off I posted this as I have done something that really annoys me, picked one one line and ignored the bulk of the post.

[The Camel]

Angela Maria Eagle now gone too, have we mentioned that already? That seems like a very big defection.

FYP

Oh. Are they the same person? I'm losing track.

[Jon MW]

I remember reading speculation way back that the EU referendum could cause a seismic shift in UK politics, with Labour and Tories getting split apart, and maybe new parties coming to the fore and ending a century of political duopoly, but I always considered it to be just outlandish doom mongering.

But it's going to happen, isn't it?

Tories have a smigeon of a chance of surviving.

Labour are toast.

Labour are toast in the short and possibly medium term. As long as they hold onto their core support it could just be like another 80's for them.

It's possible that we do get a fundamental re-alignment of politics - but I don't think we've necessarily got enough evidence yet to suggest that this will actually happen.

[nirvana]

I have a way forward. 2nd referendum with both sides stipulating a few key facts:

On the economy, there will be turbulence and the mid point estimations are a 2% or whatever drop in gdp by whenever. In normal circs this might mean by whenever the markets are likely to show x.

Britain can control migration numbers and given the mid point estimations on the economy immigration numbers will look broadly like x.

We will save 10 bill or whatevs in contributions and the govt of the day will decide how that is used.

Britain will have the right to make all its own laws.

Britain will have the right to make all its own trade relations and this could take around x years for our major export partners and x years for the rest.

Etc etc. No campaign just a leaflet distributed with all the stipulations. Then the people can debate it amongst themselves and vote

[Doobs]

(((Dan Hodges))) ‏@DPJHodges now1 minute ago

Staggering. Corbyn refused to tell Chris Bryant how he voted in the Referendum.

That is ridiculous. I look forward to PMQs this week where Cameron asks him six times if he voted leave.

What will happen with PMQs now all this is kicking off and Dave is about to go on his hols?

Staggering in a not at all very staggering way.

Obvious Corbyn voted leave. Galloway and Skinner voted leave too.

What price on a Boris remain vote?

[DaveShoelace]

Angela Maria Eagle now gone too, have we mentioned that already? That seems like a very big defection.

FYP

Oh. Are they the same person? I'm losing track.

Sisters and the other one just resigned too anyway lol

[neeko]

I am on holiday at the moment and the drop in sterling is going to make a dent, adding to the cost of the holiday.

Chatting to a 50ish y/o gentleman on line 9 of the Seoul metro (sort of like the man on the Clapham omnibus {not} ) on Friday morning, he didn't understand why we had voted leave, there was no sensible argument we could make (given our zero Korean, and his limited English) he was not happy about the big stock market falls that were happening in Asia, I don't imagine that many over here will suddenly be buying UK wigits because of the vote.

I eventually postal voted remain (even though I posted here I was tempted with leave) it was a close run thing.

I have never voted labour but if there was a snap election and my constituency was con/ukip outer v lab in then I would vote lab, would hate doing it though.

I am tempted to join lab and tories so I can vote in their leadership elections.

[TightEnd]

Fuchs is vice chairman of the CDU, Merkel's party