The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Doobs]

The biggest irony for me is that economic performance hinges on confidence and certainty and this is what all you economic experts are undermining with your negativity.

However, that said do economics experts believe we should bring back capital punishment? It's much cheaper to kill a fella than put him in prison for life. In fact why don't we bring in Sharia Law as it's going to be much more economically viable than the present UK justice system? Why don't we just close the NHS, we would save a fortune. Why did I go to Barbados on holiday rather than Bognor Regis this year? Why do we bowl around the world fighting wars to defend democracy? It's cheaper to not bother etc etc etc.

The British people have been driven by what it means to be British. We were ignored before, concerns weren't taken seriously, now we have spoken in a democratic process the idea is to continue ignoring the people because of economics? I hate to break it to the economics experts but economics isn't the driver for the majority here, we had the courage to ignore the scare stories and threats to stand up for what we think is right. That's what it means to be British. 

Oh incidentally check out how Nicola Sturgeon walks, she's got a little bops in her step, like those guys who wear their jeans around their ankles. Most peculiar.

Capital punishment isn't cheaper than jail.  Costs bloody fortunes. 

Sharia law isn't just capital punishment either, so who knows if it is cheaper.

Private health care isn't cheaper than the NHS overall. 

I'd also query your view on the reason why yiu think we get involved in most wars.

People have voted the way they have for all sorts of reasons. My mum told me she didn't want a European army.  She believes the daily express over her son it seems.  She is getting on a bit and she has been great to me, so I didn't push it. 

Suspect a big proportion have been mislead and are just plain ignorant on various issues. 

Cheers.

Fwiw Bognor isn't that great.

Doobs. I gather you are trying to find employment.

If you take the attitude of always being right into interviews, you may struggle a bit old love.

Good luck. Adz

It is probably best to argue the points rather than indulge in as hominem attacks too.  

Which points I made do you think were wrong?

Where did I say your points were wrong?

I haven't done the research to either agree or not.

My point is, your style in putting across your point is somewhat #knowitall

Certainly wasn't undermining your character to argue the facts.

It isn't difficult to research the cost of capital punishment.  The point has been made many times over the years.  Assuming we follow the American model of allowing multiple appeals and keep them on death row for an age. 

Knowing this doesn't make me a #knowitall, it just means I have made an effort to inform myself before spouting on the Internet.

Ignorance should not be a badge to wear with pride.

[nirvana]

I was criticised a bit yesterday for not putting up a abalance of articles, a reason for this was simple. I couldn't find any. This may have been because there weren't any or (more likely) i don't follow the type of people who were writing them

but i have found a few. shortly i will do the daily bookmark dump. read what you like, but there is some fascinating economic and political stuff in it

Just a by the way in case I'm ever misconstrued. I hink it's perfectly fine for you to post whatever you like whether impartial or not. And as you point out the weight of available material is heavily on the remain side anyway. Everyone knows yr views and respects them..Post as much remain stuff as you find or want to..its all grist to the mill

[Tal]

Tal mentioned this yesterday

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton

Good point from Labour MP: "If Corbyn can hold on till next Weds, he can use Chilcot to rebound."

Thanks, Tighty. Wasn't sure if this had got lost in the other stuff yesterday.

Benn was International Development Secretary during most of the Iraq war.

It does feel like this could make an already complicated situation impossible to follow.

[BigAdz]

The biggest irony for me is that economic performance hinges on confidence and certainty and this is what all you economic experts are undermining with your negativity.

However, that said do economics experts believe we should bring back capital punishment? It's much cheaper to kill a fella than put him in prison for life. In fact why don't we bring in Sharia Law as it's going to be much more economically viable than the present UK justice system? Why don't we just close the NHS, we would save a fortune. Why did I go to Barbados on holiday rather than Bognor Regis this year? Why do we bowl around the world fighting wars to defend democracy? It's cheaper to not bother etc etc etc.

The British people have been driven by what it means to be British. We were ignored before, concerns weren't taken seriously, now we have spoken in a democratic process the idea is to continue ignoring the people because of economics? I hate to break it to the economics experts but economics isn't the driver for the majority here, we had the courage to ignore the scare stories and threats to stand up for what we think is right. That's what it means to be British. 

Oh incidentally check out how Nicola Sturgeon walks, she's got a little bops in her step, like those guys who wear their jeans around their ankles. Most peculiar.

Capital punishment isn't cheaper than jail.  Costs bloody fortunes. 

Sharia law isn't just capital punishment either, so who knows if it is cheaper.

Private health care isn't cheaper than the NHS overall. 

I'd also query your view on the reason why yiu think we get involved in most wars.

People have voted the way they have for all sorts of reasons. My mum told me she didn't want a European army.  She believes the daily express over her son it seems.  She is getting on a bit and she has been great to me, so I didn't push it. 

Suspect a big proportion have been mislead and are just plain ignorant on various issues. 

Cheers.

Fwiw Bognor isn't that great.

Doobs. I gather you are trying to find employment.

If you take the attitude of always being right into interviews, you may struggle a bit old love.

Good luck. Adz

It is probably best to argue the points rather than indulge in as hominem attacks too.  

Which points I made do you think were wrong?

Where did I say your points were wrong?

I haven't done the research to either agree or not.

My point is, your style in putting across your point is somewhat #knowitall

Certainly wasn't undermining your character to argue the facts.

It isn't difficult to research the cost of capital punishment.  The point has been made many times over the years.  Assuming we follow the American model of allowing multiple appeals and keep them on death row for an age. 

Knowing this doesn't make me a #knowitall, it just means I have made an effort to inform myself before spouting on the Internet.

Ignorance should not be a badge to wear with pride.

As I said, I'm sure you are eminently employable, but you just keep proving my point.

[TightEnd]

I was criticised a bit yesterday for not putting up a abalance of articles, a reason for this was simple. I couldn't find any. This may have been because there weren't any or (more likely) i don't follow the type of people who were writing them

but i have found a few. shortly i will do the daily bookmark dump. read what you like, but there is some fascinating economic and political stuff in it

Just a by the way in case I'm ever misconstrued. I hink it's perfectly fine for you to post whatever you like whether impartial or not. And as you point out the weight of available material is heavily on the remain side anyway. Everyone knows yr views and respects them..Post as much remain stuff as you find or want to..its all grist to the mill

no problem

there is a lot of confirmation bias around, almost certainly including me

this is magnified on social media because by and large people follow or are friends with people with similar views (and only come across the alternative case when its retweeted onto their line, or it pops up on a facebook feed by someone saying "look how stupid this is")

this tends to mean an exaggerated sense of surprise and "wtf?" when a political outcome is a result that you do not personally agree with..a sense of "how could they"

more so on social media than on here, we've seen a lot of this...

reductio ad absurdium but a remainer says to a leaver "you are just a racist" and a leaver says back "you hate this country don't you?" and at its most base level both views are wrong but magnified by a sense of shock

[PokerBroker]

Not sure if this one was posted, but makes sense to me.  

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/26/labour-mutineers-betraying-national-interest

edit just pop the link up please.

[TightEnd]

jenny hill Verified account
‏@jennyhillBBC

Boris Johnson claims German business institute ( BDI ) said there'll still be access to single market. BDI just told us that's untrue

uh huh


general stock market is holding up ok today, not so barclays and rbos, trading suspended down 10-15%

ww.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/barclays-rbs-halts-trading-eu-referendum-brexit-ftse-100-stock-market-a7105196.

[Doobs]

jenny hill Verified account
‏@jennyhillBBC

Boris Johnson claims German business institute ( BDI ) said there'll still be access to single market. BDI just told us that's untrue

uh huh


general stock market is holding up ok today, not so barclays and rbos, trading suspended down 10-15%

ww.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/barclays-rbs-halts-trading-eu-referendum-brexit-ftse-100-stock-market-a7105196.

I am sure you know this, but the ftse100 isn't going to be a great barometer.  Some companies with dollar earnings should clearly be going up as sterling falls.  I wish I wasn't so sloth like with buying and selling stuff sometimes.

Sterling should be a better barometer.  Fwiw I was told yesterday on facebook that we were doing great as the pound is still worth a lot more than the dollar and euro. 

[The Camel]

jenny hill Verified account
‏@jennyhillBBC

Boris Johnson claims German business institute ( BDI ) said there'll still be access to single market. BDI just told us that's untrue

uh huh


general stock market is holding up ok today, not so barclays and rbos, trading suspended down 10-15%

ww.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/barclays-rbs-halts-trading-eu-referendum-brexit-ftse-100-stock-market-a7105196.

How much of RBS does the country still own?

[TightEnd]

jenny hill Verified account
‏@jennyhillBBC

Boris Johnson claims German business institute ( BDI ) said there'll still be access to single market. BDI just told us that's untrue

uh huh


general stock market is holding up ok today, not so barclays and rbos, trading suspended down 10-15%

ww.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/barclays-rbs-halts-trading-eu-referendum-brexit-ftse-100-stock-market-a7105196.

I am sure you know this, but the ftse100 isn't going to be a great barometer.  Some companies with dollar earnings should clearly be going up as sterling falls.  I wish I wasn't so sloth like with buying and selling stuff sometimes.

Sterling should be a better barometer.  Fwiw I was told yesterday on facebook that we were doing great as the pound is still worth a lot more than the dollar and euro. 

the ftse 250 is a better barometer, and that has been smashed, but predictable enough

i think i read that 5 company flotations/debt raisings have been pulled since thursday

the banks aside (no single market is a huge problem, probably), the ftse100 is relatively insulated

unfortunately the taxpayer is the majority owner of the banks hardest hit

Sterling is $1.33 today

interested to see in due course what the high street retailers report, what hit is there to consumer spending?

and whether the big multinationals announce any intention to leave

i have to laugh with sky news on a loop, the adverts are "get your copy of the guide to buying gold!"

[TightEnd]

these are the biggest fallers today. housebuolders, banks, other financials, retail. all the areas you'd expect

Click to see full-size image.

[Doobs]

jenny hill Verified account
‏@jennyhillBBC

Boris Johnson claims German business institute ( BDI ) said there'll still be access to single market. BDI just told us that's untrue

uh huh


general stock market is holding up ok today, not so barclays and rbos, trading suspended down 10-15%

ww.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/barclays-rbs-halts-trading-eu-referendum-brexit-ftse-100-stock-market-a7105196.

How much of RBS does the country still own?

80% I think.  LBG is a much smaller stake these days.  Without checking, less than 10%.

[Doobs]

these are the biggest fallers today. housebuolders, banks, other financials, retail. all the areas you'd expect

Click to see full-size image.

Prudentail is interesting.   Big earnings from overseas.  The bond yield is going to be bad for the annuity book, which is I guess why l and g is high up on the list.

[vegaslover]

jenny hill Verified account
‏@jennyhillBBC

Boris Johnson claims German business institute ( BDI ) said there'll still be access to single market. BDI just told us that's untrue

uh huh


general stock market is holding up ok today, not so barclays and rbos, trading suspended down 10-15%

ww.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/barclays-rbs-halts-trading-eu-referendum-brexit-ftse-100-stock-market-a7105196.

How much of RBS does the country still own?

80% I think.  LBG is a much smaller stake these days.  Without checking, less than 10%.

RBS 72%
LBG 9%

[TightEnd]

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton

Lisa Nandy will stand against Corbyn,  Labour source tells me.

(a nation either thinks "who?" or rushes to google)