The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[doubleup]

In order to have any chance in the next election I think Corbyn needs to go very hard left.

Promise to raise benefits, scrap university fees + bringing back full student grants, build 100s of thousands of cheap new homes, increase minimum wage, massively increase tax on multinational corporations, re-introduce super tax, renationalise the country's utilities.

Basically take from the rich and give to the poor.

He has zero shot the way he's going, so he might as well go down all guns blazing with a far left manifesto, which might just fire up the people who don't bother to vote right now.

Probably would need to completely halt immigration too though.

He would bankrupt the country either way, but less so if he halted immigration under that plan. However, while the Labour base would be happy with that, the Corbynistas would be against the immigration halting, which would lose him his mandate and get him ousted. Not that he ever would halt it anyway.

The thing which Brexit vote proved is that most people don't give two hoots about the economy.

What difference to them if FTSE collapses or the pound falls through the floor?

Yet give someone the chance who has only ever lived in rented accomodation the chance to own their own flat or house and you have a supporter for life.

Sort of like Thatcher did when she sold off all the council houses.

I was talking to a good friend this week who asked if I'd heard the rumours about Corbyn's possible housing policy - allow tenants to buy from private landlords at up to 40% discount on current market value.

Not seen that myself but seems to be a rumour doing the rounds.

It's pretty irrelevant anyway because even with "popular" very left wing policies, we are never getting a Labour government under his leadership.

That would be so OTT, particularly when Milliband would probably have won enough extra votes at the last election to at least stop a Tory majority, simply by saying that he was going to introduce rent controls, minimum standards etc.  He could even have claimed fiscal responsibility citing the burgeoning housing benefit bill.

 

[TightEnd]

Meet Britain's new opposition: Gina Miller on her lonely Brexit battle

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/11/bigger-just-brexit-how-gina-miller-held-government-account-over-eu




this is only part the story though, its very difficult for labour to be on the front foot re brexit as so many of their core support are pro-brexit (outside the london constituencies)

[PokerBroker]

In order to have any chance in the next election I think Corbyn needs to go very hard left.

Promise to raise benefits, scrap university fees + bringing back full student grants, build 100s of thousands of cheap new homes, increase minimum wage, massively increase tax on multinational corporations, re-introduce super tax, renationalise the country's utilities.

Basically take from the rich and give to the poor.

He has zero shot the way he's going, so he might as well go down all guns blazing with a far left manifesto, which might just fire up the people who don't bother to vote right now.

Probably would need to completely halt immigration too though.

He would bankrupt the country either way, but less so if he halted immigration under that plan. However, while the Labour base would be happy with that, the Corbynistas would be against the immigration halting, which would lose him his mandate and get him ousted. Not that he ever would halt it anyway.

The thing which Brexit vote proved is that most people don't give two hoots about the economy.

What difference to them if FTSE collapses or the pound falls through the floor?

Yet give someone the chance who has only ever lived in rented accomodation the chance to own their own flat or house and you have a supporter for life.

Sort of like Thatcher did when she sold off all the council houses.

they'd give two hoots if inflation roared away (the deficit would go even more bananas than it has been since the 2008 crash) while wages didn't increase to match and their purchasing power eroded massively

this happened under Wilson and Callaghan labour goverments, not under Blair

i understand the plan would be to raise the money from corporations, rich individuals etc and transfer to other sectors of society but the tex avoidance industry is too smart to allow collection of all the money you think should be raised. corporates will move offshore etc

Increase inheritance tax too.

the sums have never worked under hard left governments.

for example the plan to build zillions of new homes (agree, housing policy is a shambles) you have to buy the land off the very people you are planning to squeeze til their pips squeak in tax take

over and above that the majority of voters vote in self interest. the working class left is a minority compared to people who would like tax cuts, and you'd be slamming many of them into unemployment too as firms adjust to the harsher corporate environment

Compulsary purchase orders can be invoked. 

I'd also slash stamp duty on first time buyers. 

[PokerBroker]

I think renationalising the railways would be a huge winner too.

Why? Genuinely asking, bit of a blind spot for me and all my experiences of rail (reasonable amount) have been positive.

Is it because its so expensive or a poor service? If its the former then it makes sense, if its the latter than I disagree.

Would be popular and a massive winner with the follk that work the railways. 

Nationalisation of utilities can be huge if the cut out the middle management that ultimately ensues with public ownership.

I favour public ownership if done properly but looking at the state of the NHS and the vast majority of local councils, they are run terribly and filled with many jobs that aren't actually needed. 

[PokerBroker]

Travelling virgin first class is an absolute pleasure for the tiny fares you pay in advance.   Can't imagine the service would be anything like that in a communist world.

Communist world?  Seriously, for a guy that is supposedly smart and could be earning £500k plus a year in the business world you don't have talk some pish.

[Jon MW]

I think renationalising the railways would be a huge winner too.

Why? Genuinely asking, bit of a blind spot for me and all my experiences of rail (reasonable amount) have been positive.

Is it because its so expensive or a poor service? If its the former then it makes sense, if its the latter than I disagree.

Would be popular and a massive winner with the follk that work the railways. 

Nationalisation of utilities can be huge if the cut out the middle management that ultimately ensues with public ownership.

I favour public ownership if done properly but looking at the state of the NHS and the vast majority of local councils, they are run terribly and filled with many jobs that aren't actually needed. 

Isn't this...

Would be popular and a massive winner with the follk that work the railways. 


because of this...
filled with many jobs that aren't actually needed. 

?

[PokerBroker]

I think renationalising the railways would be a huge winner too.

Why? Genuinely asking, bit of a blind spot for me and all my experiences of rail (reasonable amount) have been positive.

Is it because its so expensive or a poor service? If its the former then it makes sense, if its the latter than I disagree.

Would be popular and a massive winner with the follk that work the railways. 

Nationalisation of utilities can be huge if the cut out the middle management that ultimately ensues with public ownership.

I favour public ownership if done properly but looking at the state of the NHS and the vast majority of local councils, they are run terribly and filled with many jobs that aren't actually needed. 

Isn't this...

Would be popular and a massive winner with the follk that work the railways. 


because of this...
filled with many jobs that aren't actually needed. 

?

Not necessarily.  In some circles it might play a part, but jobs and safety are certainly being risked due to greed.

I think for me the point is it doesn't always have to be about profit.

[vegaslover]

I think renationalising the railways would be a huge winner too.

Why? Genuinely asking, bit of a blind spot for me and all my experiences of rail (reasonable amount) have been positive.

Is it because its so expensive or a poor service? If its the former then it makes sense, if its the latter than I disagree.

British Rail was shit back in the day, it would be a terrible move. I''m on the train 2-3 days per week and they do a pretty decent job now on the whole.

This - most of the people complaining never had to commute under British Rail. Either because they were too young, or because so few people did at all (at least compared to now).

There's plenty wrong with the trains now, including (sort of) what Camel says - you 'shouldn't' really let virtual monopolies be run as a private company - but by all I've heard it's many times better than it was and that's with many, many more passengers to transport.

Agree with Woodsey too.  On a train right now.  Such an improvement over times past.  Much nicer experience than the plane, not much slower and cheaper too. 

Glad I don't have to use Southern tho. 

On the few occasions I have used trains this year, experience has been fucking awful every time. Bring back National Rail. Obv I use Southern

[muckthenuts]

In order to have any chance in the next election I think Corbyn needs to go very hard left.

Promise to raise benefits, scrap university fees + bringing back full student grants, build 100s of thousands of cheap new homes, increase minimum wage, massively increase tax on multinational corporations, re-introduce super tax, renationalise the country's utilities.

Basically take from the rich and give to the poor.

He has zero shot the way he's going, so he might as well go down all guns blazing with a far left manifesto, which might just fire up the people who don't bother to vote right now.

Probably would need to completely halt immigration too though.

He would bankrupt the country either way, but less so if he halted immigration under that plan. However, while the Labour base would be happy with that, the Corbynistas would be against the immigration halting, which would lose him his mandate and get him ousted. Not that he ever would halt it anyway.

Corbyn/Labour have to concede on immigration to have any chance of a meaningful attempt for power over the next few years whether they like it or not surely? Trump/Brexit could not make it any clearer what the electorate want. Keep your other policies liberal, but if you can't offer reduced immigration then you may as well not bother wasting your time and money mounting an attempt for government.

[rfgqqabc]

Do people care we subsidise the dividend paying rail companies? Seems like a sweet deal to me. I don't really remember national rail but trains are very expensive now. Its a bit shitty I can drive from Yorkshire to Essex cheaper than i can hey Just like those royal mail shares I got to buy. Admittedly booking the early tickets does seem like a bit of a steal when I can be organised enough

[TightEnd]

ComRes/Indy/Mirror:

Brits think MPs should follow the brexit referendum result, but remain split totally split on immigration vs trade

Click to see full-size image.

[TightEnd]

The MPs who will - and won't - seek to block Brexit

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/11/mps-who-will-and-wont-seek-block-brexit

[TightEnd]

front page of the times

sounds like chaos. report believed to be from deloitte

for reference the EU Cmmission employs 24,000 civil servants

an extra 30,000 for the UKis the estimate here

[TightEnd]

May gave her first foreign policy speech last night at the Guildhall

"Big attack on liberal consensus from PM tonight - if you don't get ordinary voters' fears you are 'enemy' of liberalism she says"

i think (editorial incoming) that she might see Farage as the main threat rather than Corbyn

because the opposition is quite ineffective, she might tack right, so a no compromise left leadership might mean we end up with a no compromise right government

[TightEnd]

Click to see full-size image.