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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2181134 times)
JohnCharver
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« Reply #2550 on: May 28, 2016, 10:33:28 AM »

This thread has degenerated a bit. This fish stuff is tabloid-style nonsense, trying to make something out of nothing. Hopefully, we'll get back to discussing real issues soon.

Immigration obv  Grin

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/26/net-migration-to-uk-nears-peak-fewer-britons-emigrate

I know someone that works in a food factory in Nottingham and they struggle to get regular work because Poles have moved up to management, they have the say who gets the work.....and yes they give the first work to their fellow poles before Brits. But that's racist mentioning that innit  Roll Eyes

English people are lazy though, Id employ poles aswell.

That statement must make you racist lol  aftertiming aftertiming  

Its true tho, lets not make out the poles are dodgy when they are just simply undercutting lazy english people and working harder. The biggest crybabies over eastern europeans are tax dodging cash in hand merchants, taxidrivers, builders,mechanics etc (I can insult more people on request). Daily I see the horrors of paying an englishperson to do a minimum wage job (or not as the case is).

Shut the doors before they realise the rest of us are useless aswell imo.

Not sure how you can undercut min wage factory jobs but hey ho....

So they are stomping their feet because they cant get enough hours in a food factory at minimum wage? Oh no I cant think what to do.......

I can, make sure Brits are first in line for work and fill the gaps left with immigrants as suits our needs.

They had/have that system in greece? I remember it well, they had to employ a greek (only ones who qualified for min wage) and then a foreigner to actually do their job for a fraction of the price Your model is greece bud.

They are part of the EU so doubt it now. Much prefer the Aussie take people as we need type system......

Id like the best person to do it, personally dont care where they come from. The last thing we need is jobs full of people with no competition or need to do their job well.

The whole immigration debate is pointless, eastern europeans are just an easy target. If jobs paid what they should your original job would be worth arguing over, as its min wage just get another one, dont hates poles for doing exactly what everyone else does and look after their mates/family/bird they want to shag. Blame the greedy git at the top who has meant the indigenous work force cant compete as they just dont have the same appetite for shit wage jobs.

The debate is not pointless. I'd rather Brits that needed/wanted (OK wanted is up for debate and a separate discussion) a job that were on the dole got the job first, hardly unreasonable?

If less immigrants were available your 'greedy git at the top' would have to pay a higher rate thus increasing the min wage. Yes they are an easy target because they ARE the target, let's remove the target.

I don't mind dropping a shit load in taxes if I feel it's being fairly spent, I don't currently. We have a ton of Brits that should be working ahead of non Brits, the example I gave is a case in point. It's a DISGRACE that Brits are being discriminated against because foreign nationals have moved up in the work ranks and are selecting non Brits ahead of Brits simply because purely discriminatory reasons. So there you go....

Yes I fully accept that there are highly skilled people that should be fast tracked for visas, doctors etc. But non skilled workers (factory, min wage etc) should, be on a required basis imo.

It isn't a disgrace, because it is some more hearsay bullshit.

What is hearsay?

Your mate says that a polish manager has told him he is only employing poles.  Seems likely?  

The irony is that you are in a managerial role and you come on here saying brits should come first.  The best person who is entitled to work here should come first.  That is what your bosses/shareholders would want.  

Ok I don't normally share details of my personal life but on this one occasion I will be crystal clear to show you what a disgrace the system is.

The person I'm talking about is my other half. About 2 years ago when she started her job the boss was a British guy (Asian but not relevant), he was totally fair and just distributed the work fairly, ok great. Then about 6 months ago a Polish guy took the job, since he took over there is a hierarchy about who gets the work, polish first, rest eastern euro second, Brit third, and then Asian and blacks, I kid you not!! Absolute joke to be honest.

Not that it's relevant, but I interview loads of people personally and in my team I have 2 Brit Asian girls working for me that I employed, so if you think I am anti immigration you are totally off the mark! I am selective immigration and always have been and that won't change....


The stupidest thing about your argument is what you are suggesting is the solution is to do the same thing to the poles, choose staff based on race over talent. My boss once promoted his partner, should we throw out all couples? Your example doesnt qualify your solution. You cant base policy on what apparently happens in one factory.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 10:36:33 AM by JohnCharver » Logged
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« Reply #2551 on: May 28, 2016, 11:08:17 AM »

This thread has degenerated a bit. This fish stuff is tabloid-style nonsense, trying to make something out of nothing. Hopefully, we'll get back to discussing real issues soon.

This.

Let's talk about the UK steel industry and whether it should be possible to support it by ensuring that UK projects use 100% UK steel (subject only to a UK plant being capable of it's production).

imagine running a business where you don't trade at all with the EU and being forced to set fire to a seven figure sum just to keep some twats in business who can't produce steel at market rates.



You don't think the French subsidise selected industries ? You are literally frothing at the mouth on this whole thing - totes incapes of a balanced view, call the doctor

I was quoting (sort of) argueboy - and the suggestion was that businesses should be forced to buy more expensive british steel, nothing to do with French subsidies.

 
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« Reply #2552 on: May 28, 2016, 11:15:06 AM »

This thread has degenerated a bit. This fish stuff is tabloid-style nonsense, trying to make something out of nothing. Hopefully, we'll get back to discussing real issues soon.

This.

Let's talk about the UK steel industry and whether it should be possible to support it by ensuring that UK projects use 100% UK steel (subject only to a UK plant being capable of it's production).

imagine running a business where you don't trade at all with the EU and being forced to set fire to a seven figure sum just to keep some twats in business who can't produce steel at market rates.



i don't think i agree with David

I understand the social cost is enormous, but its a product of globalisation and we've seen it in many industries

If British steel producers cannot produce product at a competitive enough price that Far Eastern companies can sell it here cheaper than they can even with transport costs taken into account, i'm not sure UK industry should be compelled to hurt its own margins by buying uncompetitive product

if the government then underwrites the cost then they taxpayer is paying for it. Politicially it might have to do so, but practically this is going to happen across many more industries in the future
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« Reply #2553 on: May 28, 2016, 11:32:23 AM »

This thread has degenerated a bit. This fish stuff is tabloid-style nonsense, trying to make something out of nothing. Hopefully, we'll get back to discussing real issues soon.

This.

Let's talk about the UK steel industry and whether it should be possible to support it by ensuring that UK projects use 100% UK steel (subject only to a UK plant being capable of it's production).

imagine running a business where you don't trade at all with the EU and being forced to set fire to a seven figure sum just to keep some twats in business who can't produce steel at market rates.



You don't think the French subsidise selected industries ? You are literally frothing at the mouth on this whole thing - totes incapes of a balanced view, call the doctor

I was quoting (sort of) argueboy - and the suggestion was that businesses should be forced to buy more expensive british steel, nothing to do with French subsidies.

All cool, just like to calm things down :-)
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« Reply #2554 on: May 28, 2016, 11:37:29 AM »

This thread has degenerated a bit. This fish stuff is tabloid-style nonsense, trying to make something out of nothing. Hopefully, we'll get back to discussing real issues soon.

This.

Let's talk about the UK steel industry and whether it should be possible to support it by ensuring that UK projects use 100% UK steel (subject only to a UK plant being capable of it's production).

imagine running a business where you don't trade at all with the EU and being forced to set fire to a seven figure sum just to keep some twats in business who can't produce steel at market rates.



i don't think i agree with David

I understand the social cost is enormous, but its a product of globalisation and we've seen it in many industries

If British steel producers cannot produce product at a competitive enough price that Far Eastern companies can sell it here cheaper than they can even with transport costs taken into account, i'm not sure UK industry should be compelled to hurt its own margins by buying uncompetitive product

if the government then underwrites the cost then they taxpayer is paying for it. Politicially it might have to do so, but practically this is going to happen across many more industries in the future

This is just way too short sighted in my view - certain industries are worth supporting almost at any cost if you can..and we can. It's in the national interest measured over time.

We could probably ask some far eastern country to provide our Army at a fraction of the cost - obv extreme example to make the point, whatever the point is
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« Reply #2555 on: May 28, 2016, 11:44:29 AM »

but why would steel be any more than shipbuilding was or coal was? all became uncompetitive in a globalised environment

not trying to be short-sighted but we are a service economy, we aren't competitive in large scale manufacturing in many areas. something like rolls royce might be an exception, and many niche manufacturers are too. But competiing against the far east with their labour rates, ability to source raw material etc? been impossible for decades

of course banking, unpopular as it is, was an industry that was too important to be allowed to fail (because the economy does not function without a money transmission mechanism) irrespective of the ineptitude and risks taken by management in it
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« Reply #2556 on: May 28, 2016, 12:12:16 PM »

This thread has degenerated a bit. This fish stuff is tabloid-style nonsense, trying to make something out of nothing. Hopefully, we'll get back to discussing real issues soon.

This.

Let's talk about the UK steel industry and whether it should be possible to support it by ensuring that UK projects use 100% UK steel (subject only to a UK plant being capable of it's production).

imagine running a business where you don't trade at all with the EU and being forced to set fire to a seven figure sum just to keep some twats in business who can't produce steel at market rates.



i don't think i agree with David

I understand the social cost is enormous, but its a product of globalisation and we've seen it in many industries

If British steel producers cannot produce product at a competitive enough price that Far Eastern companies can sell it here cheaper than they can even with transport costs taken into account, i'm not sure UK industry should be compelled to hurt its own margins by buying uncompetitive product

if the government then underwrites the cost then they taxpayer is paying for it. Politicially it might have to do so, but practically this is going to happen across many more industries in the future

This is just way too short sighted in my view - certain industries are worth supporting almost at any cost if you can..and we can. It's in the national interest measured over time.

We could probably ask some far eastern country to provide our Army at a fraction of the cost - obv extreme example to make the point, whatever the point is

Cool idea. Let's get it costed and run an options appraisal. Maybe we could outsource the government n all or, for income generation, invite bids for the monarchy.
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« Reply #2557 on: May 28, 2016, 12:26:21 PM »

but why would steel be any more than shipbuilding was or coal was? all became uncompetitive in a globalised environment

not trying to be short-sighted but we are a service economy, we aren't competitive in large scale manufacturing in many areas. something like rolls royce might be an exception, and many niche manufacturers are too. But competiing against the far east with their labour rates, ability to source raw material etc? been impossible for decades

of course banking, unpopular as it is, was an industry that was too important to be allowed to fail (because the economy does not function without a money transmission mechanism) irrespective of the ineptitude and risks taken by management in it

Coal didn't become uncompetitive.  It became too dirty.  If the power stations remained as they were, uk coal was cheaper than pretty much everything else other than gas.
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« Reply #2558 on: May 28, 2016, 01:30:19 PM »

This thread has degenerated a bit. This fish stuff is tabloid-style nonsense, trying to make something out of nothing. Hopefully, we'll get back to discussing real issues soon.

Immigration obv  Grin

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/26/net-migration-to-uk-nears-peak-fewer-britons-emigrate

I know someone that works in a food factory in Nottingham and they struggle to get regular work because Poles have moved up to management, they have the say who gets the work.....and yes they give the first work to their fellow poles before Brits. But that's racist mentioning that innit  Roll Eyes

English people are lazy though, Id employ poles aswell.

That statement must make you racist lol  aftertiming aftertiming  

Its true tho, lets not make out the poles are dodgy when they are just simply undercutting lazy english people and working harder. The biggest crybabies over eastern europeans are tax dodging cash in hand merchants, taxidrivers, builders,mechanics etc (I can insult more people on request). Daily I see the horrors of paying an englishperson to do a minimum wage job (or not as the case is).

Shut the doors before they realise the rest of us are useless aswell imo.

Not sure how you can undercut min wage factory jobs but hey ho....

So they are stomping their feet because they cant get enough hours in a food factory at minimum wage? Oh no I cant think what to do.......

I can, make sure Brits are first in line for work and fill the gaps left with immigrants as suits our needs.

They had/have that system in greece? I remember it well, they had to employ a greek (only ones who qualified for min wage) and then a foreigner to actually do their job for a fraction of the price Your model is greece bud.

They are part of the EU so doubt it now. Much prefer the Aussie take people as we need type system......

Id like the best person to do it, personally dont care where they come from. The last thing we need is jobs full of people with no competition or need to do their job well.

The whole immigration debate is pointless, eastern europeans are just an easy target. If jobs paid what they should your original job would be worth arguing over, as its min wage just get another one, dont hates poles for doing exactly what everyone else does and look after their mates/family/bird they want to shag. Blame the greedy git at the top who has meant the indigenous work force cant compete as they just dont have the same appetite for shit wage jobs.

The debate is not pointless. I'd rather Brits that needed/wanted (OK wanted is up for debate and a separate discussion) a job that were on the dole got the job first, hardly unreasonable?

If less immigrants were available your 'greedy git at the top' would have to pay a higher rate thus increasing the min wage. Yes they are an easy target because they ARE the target, let's remove the target.

I don't mind dropping a shit load in taxes if I feel it's being fairly spent, I don't currently. We have a ton of Brits that should be working ahead of non Brits, the example I gave is a case in point. It's a DISGRACE that Brits are being discriminated against because foreign nationals have moved up in the work ranks and are selecting non Brits ahead of Brits simply because purely discriminatory reasons. So there you go....

Yes I fully accept that there are highly skilled people that should be fast tracked for visas, doctors etc. But non skilled workers (factory, min wage etc) should, be on a required basis imo.

It isn't a disgrace, because it is some more hearsay bullshit.

What is hearsay?

Your mate says that a polish manager has told him he is only employing poles.  Seems likely?  

The irony is that you are in a managerial role and you come on here saying brits should come first.  The best person who is entitled to work here should come first.  That is what your bosses/shareholders would want.  

Ok I don't normally share details of my personal life but on this one occasion I will be crystal clear to show you what a disgrace the system is.

The person I'm talking about is my other half. About 2 years ago when she started her job the boss was a British guy (Asian but not relevant), he was totally fair and just distributed the work fairly, ok great. Then about 6 months ago a Polish guy took the job, since he took over there is a hierarchy about who gets the work, polish first, rest eastern euro second, Brit third, and then Asian and blacks, I kid you not!! Absolute joke to be honest.

Not that it's relevant, but I interview loads of people personally and in my team I have 2 Brit Asian girls working for me that I employed, so if you think I am anti immigration you are totally off the mark! I am selective immigration and always have been and that won't change....


The stupidest thing about your argument is what you are suggesting is the solution is to do the same thing to the poles, choose staff based on race over talent. My boss once promoted his partner, should we throw out all couples? Your example doesnt qualify your solution. You cant base policy on what apparently happens in one factory.

Nope, I'm perfectly happy to discriminate against non uk nationals for low end low value jobs in favour of Brits. Nothing stupid about it, get our fellow country folk into work first.

I'm all for immigration that has high value to us and for them to come here and compete for jobs, that's great for us and a win win.
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« Reply #2559 on: May 28, 2016, 04:36:39 PM »

This thread has degenerated a bit. This fish stuff is tabloid-style nonsense, trying to make something out of nothing. Hopefully, we'll get back to discussing real issues soon.

This.

Let's talk about the UK steel industry and whether it should be possible to support it by ensuring that UK projects use 100% UK steel (subject only to a UK plant being capable of it's production).



imagine running a business where you don't trade at all with the EU and being forced to set fire to a seven figure sum just to keep some twats in business who can't produce steel at market rates.



i don't think i agree with David

I understand the social cost is enormous, but its a product of globalisation and we've seen it in many industries

If British steel producers cannot produce product at a competitive enough price that Far Eastern companies can sell it here cheaper than they can even with transport costs taken into account, i'm not sure UK industry should be compelled to hurt its own margins by buying uncompetitive product

if the government then underwrites the cost then they taxpayer is paying for it. Politicially it might have to do so, but practically this is going to happen across many more industries in the future

Becoming communist Russia can't be a solution to anything
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« Reply #2560 on: May 28, 2016, 04:56:07 PM »

This thread has degenerated a bit. This fish stuff is tabloid-style nonsense, trying to make something out of nothing. Hopefully, we'll get back to discussing real issues soon.

This.

Let's talk about the UK steel industry and whether it should be possible to support it by ensuring that UK projects use 100% UK steel (subject only to a UK plant being capable of it's production).

imagine running a business where you don't trade at all with the EU and being forced to set fire to a seven figure sum just to keep some twats in business who can't produce steel at market rates.



FWIW I don't think we should go the whole hog in terms of procurement, but even if that was what we wanted to do our membership of the EU means we couldn't.

i don't think i agree with David

I understand the social cost is enormous, but its a product of globalisation and we've seen it in many industries

If British steel producers cannot produce product at a competitive enough price that Far Eastern companies can sell it here cheaper than they can even with transport costs taken into account, i'm not sure UK industry should be compelled to hurt its own margins by buying uncompetitive product

if the government then underwrites the cost then they taxpayer is paying for it. Politicially it might have to do so, but practically this is going to happen across many more industries in the future
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« Reply #2561 on: May 30, 2016, 10:57:15 AM »

This thread has degenerated a bit. This fish stuff is tabloid-style nonsense, trying to make something out of nothing. Hopefully, we'll get back to discussing real issues soon.

Immigration obv  Grin

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/26/net-migration-to-uk-nears-peak-fewer-britons-emigrate

I know someone that works in a food factory in Nottingham and they struggle to get regular work because Poles have moved up to management, they have the say who gets the work.....and yes they give the first work to their fellow poles before Brits. But that's racist mentioning that innit  Roll Eyes

English people are lazy though, Id employ poles aswell.

That statement must make you racist lol  aftertiming aftertiming  

Its true tho, lets not make out the poles are dodgy when they are just simply undercutting lazy english people and working harder. The biggest crybabies over eastern europeans are tax dodging cash in hand merchants, taxidrivers, builders,mechanics etc (I can insult more people on request). Daily I see the horrors of paying an englishperson to do a minimum wage job (or not as the case is).

Shut the doors before they realise the rest of us are useless aswell imo.

Not sure how you can undercut min wage factory jobs but hey ho....

So they are stomping their feet because they cant get enough hours in a food factory at minimum wage? Oh no I cant think what to do.......

I can, make sure Brits are first in line for work and fill the gaps left with immigrants as suits our needs.

They had/have that system in greece? I remember it well, they had to employ a greek (only ones who qualified for min wage) and then a foreigner to actually do their job for a fraction of the price Your model is greece bud.

They are part of the EU so doubt it now. Much prefer the Aussie take people as we need type system......

Id like the best person to do it, personally dont care where they come from. The last thing we need is jobs full of people with no competition or need to do their job well.

The whole immigration debate is pointless, eastern europeans are just an easy target. If jobs paid what they should your original job would be worth arguing over, as its min wage just get another one, dont hates poles for doing exactly what everyone else does and look after their mates/family/bird they want to shag. Blame the greedy git at the top who has meant the indigenous work force cant compete as they just dont have the same appetite for shit wage jobs.

The debate is not pointless. I'd rather Brits that needed/wanted (OK wanted is up for debate and a separate discussion) a job that were on the dole got the job first, hardly unreasonable?

If less immigrants were available your 'greedy git at the top' would have to pay a higher rate thus increasing the min wage. Yes they are an easy target because they ARE the target, let's remove the target.

I don't mind dropping a shit load in taxes if I feel it's being fairly spent, I don't currently. We have a ton of Brits that should be working ahead of non Brits, the example I gave is a case in point. It's a DISGRACE that Brits are being discriminated against because foreign nationals have moved up in the work ranks and are selecting non Brits ahead of Brits simply because purely discriminatory reasons. So there you go....

Yes I fully accept that there are highly skilled people that should be fast tracked for visas, doctors etc. But non skilled workers (factory, min wage etc) should, be on a required basis imo.

It isn't a disgrace, because it is some more hearsay bullshit.

What is hearsay?

Your mate says that a polish manager has told him he is only employing poles.  Seems likely?  

The irony is that you are in a managerial role and you come on here saying brits should come first.  The best person who is entitled to work here should come first.  That is what your bosses/shareholders would want.  

Ok I don't normally share details of my personal life but on this one occasion I will be crystal clear to show you what a disgrace the system is.

The person I'm talking about is my other half. About 2 years ago when she started her job the boss was a British guy (Asian but not relevant), he was totally fair and just distributed the work fairly, ok great. Then about 6 months ago a Polish guy took the job, since he took over there is a hierarchy about who gets the work, polish first, rest eastern euro second, Brit third, and then Asian and blacks, I kid you not!! Absolute joke to be honest.

Not that it's relevant, but I interview loads of people personally and in my team I have 2 Brit Asian girls working for me that I employed, so if you think I am anti immigration you are totally off the mark! I am selective immigration and always have been and that won't change....


The stupidest thing about your argument is what you are suggesting is the solution is to do the same thing to the poles, choose staff based on race over talent. My boss once promoted his partner, should we throw out all couples? Your example doesnt qualify your solution. You cant base policy on what apparently happens in one factory.

Nope, I'm perfectly happy to discriminate against non uk nationals for low end low value jobs in favour of Brits. Nothing stupid about it, get our fellow country folk into work first.

I'm all for immigration that has high value to us and for them to come here and compete for jobs, that's great for us and a win win.




When you say "us" may I ask who you are referring to and if I'm included?
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« Reply #2562 on: May 30, 2016, 11:52:28 AM »

Election Fraud, strange how there has been very little coverage of this story about the Cons allegedly breaking rules.  It seems as far as I can see from some of the more obscure sources that around 28 MP's could be embroiled and 18 different Police forces have opened an investigation. 

Yet when an SNP member was accused of Mortgage fraud and she still hasn't been interviewed by the cops 8 months on there was wall to wall coverage.

One could assume that they are double standards. 
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« Reply #2563 on: May 30, 2016, 11:55:38 AM »

Election Fraud, strange how there has been very little coverage of this story about the Cons allegedly breaking rules.  It seems as far as I can see from some of the more obscure sources that around 28 MP's could be embroiled and 18 different Police forces have opened an investigation. 

Yet when an SNP member was accused of Mortgage fraud and she still hasn't been interviewed by the cops 8 months on there was wall to wall coverage.

One could assume that they are double standards. 

There's been loads of coverage, I haven't read anything about the SNP member though .
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« Reply #2564 on: May 30, 2016, 11:58:29 AM »

Labour won't push the electoral fraud stuff because its widespread across all parties, not just a conservative party issue. you wont therefore hear a lot of opposition MPs on the vox pops shouting about it because they are in glass houses, and there are plenty of stone about

Daily Politics has done a lot on it and Michael Crick has led on it.
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