The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[nirvana]

Eddie Izzard is an utter cock.  So tilting. 

Oh man..Was awful..Never seen him appear on anything without mentioning he does shows in German & french and runs marathons. Worse kind of self absorbed narcissist and debates like a 3 year old

[DaveShoelace]

I usually tap out when a celeb like Izard is on. They bring them on for that "Everyman" appeal but most of the time they know less about real life than the actual politicians, who at least talk to their constituents.

[david3103]

I usually tap out when a celeb like Izard is on. They bring them on for that "Everyman" appeal but most of the time they know less about real life than the actual politicians, who at least talk to their constituents.

But Izzard has genuine political ambitions, he should know more and be capable of genuine debate. After last night's showing I'd be more inclined to vote for Russel Brand.

[doubleup]

Slightly disappointed by the IN team tonight, we shouldn't be talking about Boris, we should be talking about their lack of pure substance and facts.

I suspect it will be evened up when Nigel Farage is on QT in ten min. He really is not helping the out campaign imo.

Farage helped the Out campaign a lot more than Eddie Izzard helped Remain on the first question. I expected much better from Izzard than to cite Farage's family history as a reason why he (Farage) should support immigration.

The Remainistas seem to believe that personal attacks on those who disagree with them are fine. i suppose it saves them having to actually tell us the whole truth about where a vote to stay would leave us in 10 years time.

So you condemn Johnson for his Obama Kenya comments?

[Woodsey]

I usually tap out when a celeb like Izard is on. They bring them on for that "Everyman" appeal but most of the time they know less about real life than the actual politicians, who at least talk to their constituents.

But Izzard has genuine political ambitions, he should know more and be capable of genuine debate. After last night's showing I'd be more inclined to vote for Russel Brand.

Whoa whoa whoa steady on 

[DMorgan]

I suppose it saves them having to actually tell us the whole truth about where a vote to stay would leave us in 10 years time.

Where would a vote to stay leaves us in 10 years time?

[nirvana]

I suppose it saves them having to actually tell us the whole truth about where a vote to stay would leave us in 10 years time.

Where would a vote to stay leaves us in 10 years time?

Exactly where we are now

[Woodsey]

just saw Tony blairs old mate Alistair Campbell at Kings cross

[DungBeetle]

I suppose it saves them having to actually tell us the whole truth about where a vote to stay would leave us in 10 years time.

Where would a vote to stay leaves us in 10 years time?

This should have been the crux of both sides of the debate in my opinion.  This is a massive decision.  Forget short term market reaction or the bad state of Spain's economy right now for example - both sides should have painting where we'll be in 10 years and why voting in or out in the best choice.   Unfortunately it has just descended into a bun fight full of dubious soundbites on both sides.

[arbboy]

I suppose it saves them having to actually tell us the whole truth about where a vote to stay would leave us in 10 years time.

Where would a vote to stay leaves us in 10 years time?

This should have been the crux of both sides of the debate in my opinion.  This is a massive decision.  Forget short term market reaction or the bad state of Spain's economy right now for example - both sides should have painting where we'll be in 10 years and why voting in or out in the best choice.   Unfortunately it has just descended into a bun fight full of dubious soundbites on both sides.

I was saying something similar to my mum last night.  I said 'you didn't take a huge jump and set up your business and worry about making losses in the first 2 or 3 years and taking a huge salary cut to do it.  It was all about the bigger picture'  It is amazing how little long term results are being taken into account in this debate.  Farage made a good point last night about quality of life long term and not worrying solely about GDP only.

Of course there will be some short term financial pain if we come out.  Why is that a bad thing if we have a recession short term if we benefit from the change longer term?  We are due a house price correction anyway with house price/wage ratio at close to historical highs so if we come out the government will be able to blame Brexit for it rather than just their policies keeping house prices artificially high for years.

Martin Lewis was good on this week after QT last night comparing the level of risk of leaving as a positive stating risk is good if there is suitable upside alongside taking the risk.   He made a good case that risk isn't necessarily a bad thing which a lot of people don't realise.  He spoke like a professional gambler the way he spoke about risk/variance.

[david3103]

Slightly disappointed by the IN team tonight, we shouldn't be talking about Boris, we should be talking about their lack of pure substance and facts.

I suspect it will be evened up when Nigel Farage is on QT in ten min. He really is not helping the out campaign imo.

Farage helped the Out campaign a lot more than Eddie Izzard helped Remain on the first question. I expected much better from Izzard than to cite Farage's family history as a reason why he (Farage) should support immigration.

The Remainistas seem to believe that personal attacks on those who disagree with them are fine. i suppose it saves them having to actually tell us the whole truth about where a vote to stay would leave us in 10 years time.

So you condemn Johnson for his Obama Kenya comments?

I condemn all ad hominem attacks within the referendum debate.

I suppose it saves them having to actually tell us the whole truth about where a vote to stay would leave us in 10 years time.

Where would a vote to stay leaves us in 10 years time?

Exactly where we are now

Not true. To remain in the EU means that in 10 years time we will be deeper under the control of the various mechanisms of a Federalist European Super-state. Our courts will be more in thrall of the ECJ. Our policy-making on energy, health, agriculture, manufacturing and much much more will be focussed not on what is best for our island nation, but on what suits the cause of a far wider geographic and cultural area.
I want close ties with our neighbours. I want to be prepared to fight with them, not against them. I want to trade with them by offering to sell them services and goods that they want to buy from us. But if they don't want our goods and services then there's a whole other world out there that will.

Does anyone supporting the stay vote really believe that in 10 years time we won't be being forced into ever greater Union?
Do people really believe that we won't be cajoled, cornered, conned into joining the Euro?
Do people truly believe that being administered from Brussels/Strasbourg is an effective way forward? (The mere fact that the entire unit moves monthly between two bases is surely evidence enough that we might as well be down the rabbit hole for all the sense it makes)

[TightEnd]

Leave is currently a 25% shot on Betfair or 3/1

are posters backing that? is it value? is it close


generally, when watching last night, i saw an awful lot of confirmation bias in the commentary/posts, on here included

remain won or lost, leave was strong or weak...it reinforced views rather than changed them i thought?

[arbboy]

Leave is currently a 25% shot on Betfair or 3/1

are posters backing that? is it value? is it close


generally, when watching last night, i saw an awful lot of confirmation bias in the commentary/posts, on here included

remain won or lost, leave was strong or weak...it reinforced views rather than changed them i thought?

I am voting out now.  100% decided.  I thought Gayling was very impressive last night, spoke really well and i find it very hard to disagree with anything he said last night.

Not sure about the 3/1.  I just think as previously mentioned 2/7 the remain vote is between 45-60% is literally stealing money.   Only bet i will be having.

[DungBeetle]

I was almost 90% to vote stay but I'm uncertain now.  Going to give it a lot of thought over the next week or so.

This is the first time I've felt like Leave has a chance to win (not that it impacts my vote, just the feeling I get)

[TightEnd]

same question another way

we are used to shy tories

we also had an element of shy unionist in the scottish campaign

is there a "shy remain" element at play here?

vote leave are more passionate (those wanting change going to be compared to those happy with the status quo), louder on social media?


as an aside, and i know the tory v tory stuff has been very unedifying but one Labour MP reported being on the stump in a northern town and

a) a majority of labour voters thought labour's official stance was to leave
b) an even bigger majority of labour working class voters they canvassed were leave (a lot on immigration grounds) 

Remain needs a solid labour vote to come out but with Corbyn so low profile and a lot of distraction on the tory battles i am not so sure it will

i am beginning to wonder!