The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Pinchop73]

I thought I had heard Trump support Brexit in the past.  He is such a stranger to the truth

I do not believe I could disagree with you more. President Trump has spoken more truth in the last 10 minutes than any politician has in the last 30 years.

"The truth is like poetry. And most people fucking hate poetry"

[david3103]

Meanwhile, compared to it's value on the day Cameron announced the referendum dat, the FTSE closed up by 3% on Friday.

[Doobs]

I thought I had heard Trump support Brexit in the past.  He is such a stranger to the truth

I do not believe I could disagree with you more. President Trump has spoken more truth in the last 10 minutes than any politician has in the last 30 years.

"The truth is like poetry. And most people fucking hate poetry"

[PokerBroker]

.

wp

That isn't a poll in the conventional sense, that is a no doubt easily rigged website vote on a paper that favours independence.

It is like the daily mail doing a poll on party preferences on their website and then saying that they have a poll daying 80% of the UK would vote conservative.  Or alternatively the guardian discovering that their are no conservative voters left at all.

I never claimed it was a poll.  However The Sunday Post commissioned a poll and it puts support at 59%.  The Sunday Post would be considered to be a staunchly Unionist paper.  I don't know if was their readership that was polled. 

59% would be a pretty poor start point when scotlands opinion just got totally ignored. Would people really be that keen to vote to leave, seeing as the results would be a 2nd market dive for them followed by trying to join a EU we just set fire to, and a euro that includes Greece. Feels like a silly time to want to join the EU now when scotland can just wait it out and see what other members do?

You see there is a sub section in Scotland that no matter what you tell them or prove to them they just won't waiver.  I suspect that 59% is a decent starting point and would expect that to grown in the coming weeks and months.  Personally, I don't believe now is the time to push on another referendum.  

Myself and others on the left always felt 2014 was bad timing as well we had many discussions around it at the time and felt timing was crucial we thought back then that 2017/18 was the right time.  

I am somewhat saddened to see the lack of political critique in Scotland and it seems for the foreseeable future despite bad policy decisions you could stick a yellow and black rosette on a NAT and they will be successful.  

[Woodsey]

.

wp

That isn't a poll in the conventional sense, that is a no doubt easily rigged website vote on a paper that favours independence.

It is like the daily mail doing a poll on party preferences on their website and then saying that they have a poll daying 80% of the UK would vote conservative.  Or alternatively the guardian discovering that their are no conservative voters left at all.

I never claimed it was a poll.  However The Sunday Post commissioned a poll and it puts support at 59%.  The Sunday Post would be considered to be a staunchly Unionist paper.  I don't know if was their readership that was polled. 

59% would be a pretty poor start point when scotlands opinion just got totally ignored. Would people really be that keen to vote to leave, seeing as the results would be a 2nd market dive for them followed by trying to join a EU we just set fire to, and a euro that includes Greece. Feels like a silly time to want to join the EU now when scotland can just wait it out and see what other members do?

You see there is a sub section in Scotland that no matter what you tell them or prove to them they just won't waiver.  I suspect that 59% is a decent starting point and would expect that to grown in the coming weeks and months.  Personally, I don't believe now is the time to push on another referendum.  

Myself and others on the left always felt 2014 was bad timing as well we had many discussions around it at the time and felt timing was crucial we thought back then that 2017/18 was the right time.  

I am somewhat saddened to see the lack of political critique in Scotland and it seems for the foreseeable future despite bad policy decisions you could stick a yellow and black rosette on a NAT and they will be successful.  

You should all be lobbying for the English to have a vote too, that's the best way to make sure you get independence when you get asked next....

[Sheriff Fatman]

Two interesting developments since midnight.  Corbyn sacks Hillary Benn and the Lib Dems announce that they will make rejoining the EU party policy.

The Labour infighting is arguably more fascinating than the Tory equivalent, and significantly more meaningful with regard to how UK politics evolves over the next 10 years or so.

[DaveShoelace]

and the Lib Dems announce that they will make rejoining the EU party policy.

Bit like when you see a new online poker room nobody has ever heard of offering a 100% up to $1 million first deposit bonus.

[PokerBroker]

Rumours circulating on twitter that Gideot is to step down now.  Oooft. 

Sunday Politics on for over 2hrs this morning, this could be fun.  Andrew Neil might end up wth a few resignations live on air. 

[DaveShoelace]

Andrew Neil might end up wth a few resignations live on air. 

Ooh, good prediction, might have to get the popcorn out for this one.

[DaveShoelace]

Rumours circulating on twitter that Gideot is to step down now.  Oooft. 

Sunday Politics on for over 2hrs this morning, this could be fun.  Andrew Neil might end up wth a few resignations live on air. 

You might be right http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36632956

[PokerBroker]

If I were Corbyn and I had these careerists in my ranks I'd deselect them, if they want to resign from the shadow cabinet the should resign their seats and let the elctorate decide if they want them to represent them.  These people are going against the elected will of the people. 

[MC]

I'm not sure how true this is but certainly seems feasible to me:

From The Guardian's comments section:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

[TightEnd]

bookmark dump

Heidi A resigns, with thoguhts that up to half the shadow cabinet will go this morning

Click to see full-size image.

[TightEnd]

Hilary Benn has been sacked. What happens next?

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/06/hilary-benn-has-been-sacked-jeremy-corbyn-automatically-ballot

[TightEnd]

Brussels rules out any prospect of Scotland retaining EU membership when Britain leaves #EU

Click to see full-size image.