The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Doobs]

Tighty.

Just laid Boris at 2.12.  I had a bet on him as next Tory leader from a year or so ago, so is a bit of a hedge for me.  Good/bad value you think?  Seems a poisoned chalice to me, though not sure he can walk away.

[Doobs]

kuenssberg

"The prime minister's resigned. No-one knows who the next occupant of Number 10 will be.

And today, some of the most senior figures in the Labour Party are trying to push their leader out too. There have been concerns about Jeremy Corbyn's performance for months and months. But it was his role, or lack of role, in the campaign to keep the UK in the EU, and his sacking of Hilary Benn in the middle of the night, that has given members of the shadow cabinet the final reasons to quit. Several have already gone, as many as half will be gone by the end of the day, I understand.

And documents passed to the BBC suggest Jeremy Corbyn's office sought to delay and water down the Labour Remain campaign. Sources suggest that they are evidence of "deliberate sabotage".

One email from the leader's office suggests that Mr Corbyn's director of strategy and communications, Seumas Milne, was behind Mr Corbyn's reluctance to take a prominent role in Labour's campaign to keep the UK in the EU. One email, discussing one of the leader's speeches, said it was because of the "hand of Seumas. If he can't kill it, he will water it down so much to hope nobody notices it".

A series of messages dating back to December seen by the BBC shows correspondence between the party leader's office, the Labour Remain campaign and Labour , discussing the European campaign. It shows how a sentence talking about immigration was removed on one occasion and how Mr Milne refused to sign off a letter signed by 200 MPs after it had already been approved.

The documents show concern in Labour and the Labour Remain campaign about Mr Corbyn's commitment to the campaign - one email says "what is going on here?". Another email from Labour Remain sources to the leader's office complains "there is no EU content here - we agreed to have Europe content in it". Sources say they show the leader's office was reluctant to give full support to the EU campaign and how difficult it was to get Mr Corbyn to take a prominent role.

Mr Corbyn has insisted publicly that he campaigned hard to keep the country in the EU and that he made a number of speeches around the country, and attended many campaigning events. But many shadow cabinet ministers believe his performance in the campaign has shown that he is simply not capable of leading the party. One senior figure told me: "People have just had enough and are embarrassed to be part of it." Jeremy Corbyn's team are adamant that he will stand again for the leadership, and they believe the party's members would back him again.

He has had persuasive and vehement backing from the party's members who he energised last summer. But as the Labour party reels from Thursday's result, it is not clear that support will be as solid as it was. MPs report that some of their members are contacting them to say they've changed their minds about Mr Corbyn. We'll see. It's possible that within days, both of our two main political parties will be looking for a new leader. "

I saw corbyn's performance in the referendum described as driving with the handbrake on.  That hits the nail on the head.  He said in some TV interview during the campaign that he was 70% for remaining, but have off the air of a man who didn't even believe it was as high as 70%. 

Just not good enough.

[TightEnd]

Tighty.

Just laid Boris at 2.12.  I had a bet on him as next Tory leader from a year or so ago, so is a bit of a hedge for me.  Good/bad value you think?  Seems a poisoned chalice to me, though not sure he can walk away.

i honestly don't know

the new leader has to be a brexiter, probably new chancellor and foreign sec too. just can't have remainers negotiating exits?

but there is talk of an "anyone but boris" candidate emerging for the wider party

the labour pary has apparently "gamed" how to combat different leaders and fears theresa May more. not much to get stuck into with her, after all. she's not the philandering chancer boris is for starters....

but who the "anyone but boris" is, no idea yet. people like Crabb might be a compromise candidate

i do know these things are rarely won by the short favourites a way out....but Boris has to be one of the final two i think

[bookiebasher]

Tighty.

Just laid Boris at 2.12.  I had a bet on him as next Tory leader from a year or so ago, so is a bit of a hedge for me.  Good/bad value you think?  Seems a poisoned chalice to me, though not sure he can walk away.

Also be interested in Tighty's views on this.

Backed him ages ago , gone in again odds against.

[TightEnd]

here we are doobs, guido's view on the tory leadership runners and riders

http://order-order.com/2016/06/26/next-prime-minister-stand/

[bookiebasher]

Tighty.

Just laid Boris at 2.12.  I had a bet on him as next Tory leader from a year or so ago, so is a bit of a hedge for me.  Good/bad value you think?  Seems a poisoned chalice to me, though not sure he can walk away.

i honestly don't know

the new leader has to be a brexiter, probably new chancellor and foreign sec too. just can't have remainers negotiating exits?

but there is talk of an "anyone but boris" candidate emerging for the wider party

the labour pary has apparently "gamed" how to combat different leaders and fears theresa May more. not much to get stuck into with her, after all. she's not the philandering chancer boris is for starters....

but who the "anyone but boris" is, no idea yet. people like Crabb might be a compromise candidate

i do know these things are rarely won by the short favourites a way out....but Boris has to be one of the final two i think

If he gets to the final two , surely he wins it ?

 The members love him.

[TightEnd]

Tighty.

Just laid Boris at 2.12.  I had a bet on him as next Tory leader from a year or so ago, so is a bit of a hedge for me.  Good/bad value you think?  Seems a poisoned chalice to me, though not sure he can walk away.

i honestly don't know

the new leader has to be a brexiter, probably new chancellor and foreign sec too. just can't have remainers negotiating exits?

but there is talk of an "anyone but boris" candidate emerging for the wider party

the labour pary has apparently "gamed" how to combat different leaders and fears theresa May more. not much to get stuck into with her, after all. she's not the philandering chancer boris is for starters....

but who the "anyone but boris" is, no idea yet. people like Crabb might be a compromise candidate

i do know these things are rarely won by the short favourites a way out....but Boris has to be one of the final two i think

If he gets to the final two , surely he wins it ?

 The members love him.

but many tory mps don't, he's a chancer, he's distrusted for obvious reasons by all remain mps, all cameron allies

has to get on the ballot for final 2. should do, but its in the price at 4/5, ev, 5/4

yes if on final 2 he is diffuclt to stop as the membership are mad.

[bookiebasher]

Tighty.

Just laid Boris at 2.12.  I had a bet on him as next Tory leader from a year or so ago, so is a bit of a hedge for me.  Good/bad value you think?  Seems a poisoned chalice to me, though not sure he can walk away.

i honestly don't know

the new leader has to be a brexiter, probably new chancellor and foreign sec too. just can't have remainers negotiating exits?

but there is talk of an "anyone but boris" candidate emerging for the wider party

the labour pary has apparently "gamed" how to combat different leaders and fears theresa May more. not much to get stuck into with her, after all. she's not the philandering chancer boris is for starters....

but who the "anyone but boris" is, no idea yet. people like Crabb might be a compromise candidate

i do know these things are rarely won by the short favourites a way out....but Boris has to be one of the final two i think

If he gets to the final two , surely he wins it ?

 The members love him.

but many tory mps don't, he's a chancer, he's distrusted for obvious reasons by all remain mps, all cameron allies

has to get on the ballot for final 2. should do, but its in the price at 4/5, ev, 5/4

yes if on final 2 he is diffuclt to stop as the membership are mad.

If he gets to final two he's 1-10 on.

It's all about the backdoor deals now.

[TightEnd]

Merkel wants a Brexit rethink.

Chief of staff Peter Altmaier,

UK "should have the possibility to reconsider the consequences of an exit"

[TightEnd]

this is a fun one. fortunately i have to go offline soon, i can leave the thread alone

"Why Brexit Is Much, Much Scarier Than You Think

​This is what economic suicide looks like.

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a46143/why-brexit-bad-for-britain/ "

[JohnCharver]

Merkel wants a Brexit rethink.

Chief of staff Peter Altmaier,

UK "should have the possibility to reconsider the consequences of an exit"

Right after we get the chance to reconsider the GE result. Hold on, the referendum just did :p

Its amazing viewing, shame the situation/characters are real.


Eastern europeans ive spoken to, are seriously worried they will lose their right to stay or struggle to get back in if they travel. Someone has the chance to unite all politics by getting together and giving a clear message this isnt the case, I dont think anybody realistically thinks it is? Its so disappointing how we dont have any MPs who have come forward and led while others are floundering. They are parasites fighting for scraps on long dead carcasses, you dont need to beat your leader over the head, they already jumped off a cliff, if any of them could show us what they are made of they will absolutely storm this.

[Woodsey]

Any positive news to report? 😆

[RickBFA]

another likely to be very unpopular position

Click to see full-size image.

Not just unpopular, pathetic.

We need to crack on with making the best of the position instead of coming up with such nonsense.

Crack on and drive that bus right off that cliff?

By his logic, every political vote we've had is flawed and should be challenged.

We have Brexit whether you, I or this "academic" like it or not.

The reality is no amount of bleating is going to change it.

What's your alternative, get on with it or keep bleating and moaning about a democratic vote?

Get the commons to over ride the vote? That's going to destroy the little trust the UK public have in our politicians.

[Woodsey]

Click to see full-size image.

[Doobs]

another likely to be very unpopular position

Click to see full-size image.

Not just unpopular, pathetic.

We need to crack on with making the best of the position instead of coming up with such nonsense.

Crack on and drive that bus right off that cliff?

By his logic, every political vote we've had is flawed and should be challenged.

We have Brexit where you, I or this "academic" like it or not.

The reality is no amount of bleating is going to change it.

What's your alternative, get on with it or keep bleating and moaning about a democratic vote?

I have said before, that poll on changing the rules of the referendum after it happened is clearly ludicrous, and I replied saying so on Facebook straight after I saw it.
 
There are other alternatives though.    If Sturgeon has a veto, and several people have speculated she does, then I would say she has a clear mandate from her electorate to exercise that veto.  

Also, the people running the EU should wise up and realise this is immensely damaging to them too and should offer concessions in my view.  Not saying they will, just thar they should.

Or alternatively we should just crack on over that cliff.  If we do I am not going to sit and mope about it, and will just carry on with my life and make the most of it.  But I reserve my right to laugh at the idiocy of most of the protagonists.

Regards.