The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[nirvana]

I get that people are enjoying the chaos this is causing the government, putting them in their place etc.

I just don't think leaving the EU is a price to pay for that.

Do you have a single main reason  why you think like that. If I was young I guess the ease of potentially living abroad would be a 'price' I might see as affecting me.

[Cf]

I get that people are enjoying the chaos this is causing the government, putting them in their place etc.

I just don't think leaving the EU is a price to pay for that.

Do you have a single main reason  why you think like that. If I was young I guess the ease of potentially living abroad would be a 'price' I might see as affecting me.

Ideological reasons really. Apart from all the politics/economics I think we should be trying to bring people together rather than going out spectate ways.

[vegaslover]

The rich people's shares seem to be doing just fine. FTSE at 6,504. Up another 144 points. The 250 up 268 points.

Markets must be worried.

Market was barely hit at all to begin with. Look back 2-4 weeks and market now a fair bit higher. The £ on the other hand, dropped big again today.

Immediate market reaction was a 500 point drop in FTSE 100.

I was being tongue in cheek.

Markets rising in this situation feels surprising.

If they had dropped like a stone it would have all been due to Brexit.

They rise and we can find something else to moan about.

Yeah,
My point was that much of the reported drop was scaremongering. Markets react daily to anything 'news'.  The markets, including Sterling, had unnaturally risen based on poll prediction of a remain vote. Of course they dropped upon the results of the drop. Many rich people had a very good week

[arbboy]

Dog running in 851pm at Hove in a minute called 'Brexit'.  Topical tip!  Should stay longer than Boris did in the leadership race.

http://greyhoundbet.racingpost.com/#card/race_id=1460605&r_date=2016-06-30&tab=form

[RickBFA]

Like nirvana I feel more glorious as each day passes. I voted for equality and democracy, principles that are worth more to me than money. The more the mud-slinging continues about stupidity and ignorance from economics experts the more resolute I become. In fact I feel great pride in the courage of British people, we heard all the scare stories, the threats and the doomsday predictions and we still stood up for what we believe. That's what being British is all about and we are a truly great nation because of it. People gonna try and bully us? That's never gonna work in Britain mate. 

This post sums up what the remain campaign couldn't/didn't understand.

As my wife keeps reminding me, on other unrelated topics, there really is more to life than £££££

[Pinchop73]

Click to see full-size image.

[david3103]

This post appeared uninvited on my FB page allegedly posted by Corbyn, a random dip into the comments suggests overwhelming support for him, or a very sharp admin removing negativity wherever they find it.

Jeremy Corbyn
United we stand, divided we fall is one of the oldest and truest slogans of the labour movement.
 
After last week's referendum, our country faces major challenges. Risks to the economy and living standards are growing. The public is split.
 
The Government is in disarray. Ministers have made it clear they have no exit plan, but are determined to make working people pay with a new round of cuts and tax rises.
 
Labour has the responsibility to give a lead where the Government will not. We need to bring people together, hold the Government to account, oppose austerity and set out a path to exit that will protect jobs and incomes.
 
To do that we need to stand together. Since I was elected leader of our party nine months ago, we have repeatedly defeated the Government over its attacks on living standards. Last month, Labour become the largest party in the local elections. In Thursday's referendum, a narrow majority voted to leave, but two thirds of Labour supporters backed our call for a Remain vote.
 
I was elected leader of our party, for a new kind of politics, by 60% of Labour members and supporters.  The need for that different approach now is greater than ever.

Our people need Labour Party members, trade unionists and MPs to unite. As leader it is my continued commitment to dedicate our party's activity to that goal.

[nirvana]

I get that people are enjoying the chaos this is causing the government, putting them in their place etc.

I just don't think leaving the EU is a price to pay for that.

Do you have a single main reason  why you think like that. If I was young I guess the ease of potentially living abroad would be a 'price' I might see as affecting me.

Ideological reasons really. Apart from all the politics/economics I think we should be trying to bring people together rather than going out spectate ways.

Yep. Feels like a pretty good rationale to me and I hope we embrace that even more in the future than we did as members

[JohnCharver]

This post appeared uninvited on my FB page allegedly posted by Corbyn, a random dip into the comments suggests overwhelming support for him, or a very sharp admin removing negativity wherever they find it.

Jeremy Corbyn
United we stand, divided we fall is one of the oldest and truest slogans of the labour movement.
 
After last week's referendum, our country faces major challenges. Risks to the economy and living standards are growing. The public is split.
 
The Government is in disarray. Ministers have made it clear they have no exit plan, but are determined to make working people pay with a new round of cuts and tax rises.
 
Labour has the responsibility to give a lead where the Government will not. We need to bring people together, hold the Government to account, oppose austerity and set out a path to exit that will protect jobs and incomes.
 
To do that we need to stand together. Since I was elected leader of our party nine months ago, we have repeatedly defeated the Government over its attacks on living standards. Last month, Labour become the largest party in the local elections. In Thursday's referendum, a narrow majority voted to leave, but two thirds of Labour supporters backed our call for a Remain vote.
 
I was elected leader of our party, for a new kind of politics, by 60% of Labour members and supporters.  The need for that different approach now is greater than ever.

Our people need Labour Party members, trade unionists and MPs to unite. As leader it is my continued commitment to dedicate our party's activity to that goal.

Whats changed for his supporters though? They always knew the MPs didnt want him and while they think theyve buried it in the referendum stuff, it plain as day they are using it to do their bidding (again unreal how stupid they think everyone is).

People who arent his supporters have always thought he was unelectable and they are hardly going to listen to opposition more now when people all guessed the referendum vote wrong- so in their mind how do we know he cant win a GE.

Quite simply if they cant win with him they dont want to win with a person they feel doesnt represent them, blair etc.

[arbboy]

This post appeared uninvited on my FB page allegedly posted by Corbyn, a random dip into the comments suggests overwhelming support for him, or a very sharp admin removing negativity wherever they find it.

Jeremy Corbyn
United we stand, divided we fall is one of the oldest and truest slogans of the labour movement.
 
After last week's referendum, our country faces major challenges. Risks to the economy and living standards are growing. The public is split.
 
The Government is in disarray. Ministers have made it clear they have no exit plan, but are determined to make working people pay with a new round of cuts and tax rises.
 
Labour has the responsibility to give a lead where the Government will not. We need to bring people together, hold the Government to account, oppose austerity and set out a path to exit that will protect jobs and incomes.
 
To do that we need to stand together. Since I was elected leader of our party nine months ago, we have repeatedly defeated the Government over its attacks on living standards. Last month, Labour become the largest party in the local elections. In Thursday's referendum, a narrow majority voted to leave, but two thirds of Labour supporters backed our call for a Remain vote.
 
I was elected leader of our party, for a new kind of politics, by 60% of Labour members and supporters.  The need for that different approach now is greater than ever.

Our people need Labour Party members, trade unionists and MPs to unite. As leader it is my continued commitment to dedicate our party's activity to that goal.

Whats changed for his supporters though? They always knew the MPs didnt want him and while they think theyve buried it in the referendum stuff, it plain as day they are using it to do their bidding (again unreal how stupid they think everyone is).

People who arent his supporters have always thought he was unelectable and they are hardly going to listen to opposition more now when people all guessed the referendum vote wrong- so in their mind how do we know he cant win a GE.

Quite simply if they cant win with him they dont want to win with a person they feel doesnt represent them, blair etc.

Which is why the traditional Labour party is totally pointless in 2016.  If it stands by its core values it can't possibly win an election.  The way they can win is to pretend to be something they shouldn't try to be.

[JohnCharver]

This post appeared uninvited on my FB page allegedly posted by Corbyn, a random dip into the comments suggests overwhelming support for him, or a very sharp admin removing negativity wherever they find it.

Jeremy Corbyn
United we stand, divided we fall is one of the oldest and truest slogans of the labour movement.
 
After last week's referendum, our country faces major challenges. Risks to the economy and living standards are growing. The public is split.
 
The Government is in disarray. Ministers have made it clear they have no exit plan, but are determined to make working people pay with a new round of cuts and tax rises.
 
Labour has the responsibility to give a lead where the Government will not. We need to bring people together, hold the Government to account, oppose austerity and set out a path to exit that will protect jobs and incomes.
 
To do that we need to stand together. Since I was elected leader of our party nine months ago, we have repeatedly defeated the Government over its attacks on living standards. Last month, Labour become the largest party in the local elections. In Thursday's referendum, a narrow majority voted to leave, but two thirds of Labour supporters backed our call for a Remain vote.
 
I was elected leader of our party, for a new kind of politics, by 60% of Labour members and supporters.  The need for that different approach now is greater than ever.

Our people need Labour Party members, trade unionists and MPs to unite. As leader it is my continued commitment to dedicate our party's activity to that goal.

Whats changed for his supporters though? They always knew the MPs didnt want him and while they think theyve buried it in the referendum stuff, it plain as day they are using it to do their bidding (again unreal how stupid they think everyone is).

People who arent his supporters have always thought he was unelectable and they are hardly going to listen to opposition more now when people all guessed the referendum vote wrong- so in their mind how do we know he cant win a GE.

Quite simply if they cant win with him they dont want to win with a person they feel doesnt represent them, blair etc.

Which is why the traditional Labour party is totally pointless in 2016.  If it stands by its core values it can't possibly win an election.  The way they can win is to pretend to be something they shouldn't try to be.

I agree, its better to be the lesser of two evils, a labour government over a tory government, but its also pretty inspiration particularly in the current climate, a group of people who wont sell themselves for power, perhaps doobs is right and labour defectors belong with lib dems

[4KSuited]

Gove split from Boris to run for PM because he couldn't extract the guarantees of high office that he wanted. Either that, or he realised that Boris as PM would be catastrophic - after all, he turned up for his first day as London Mayor claiming that he had "a full team in place", which turned out to be bullshit. He's also got a closet bursting with skeletons, and the rumour is that Murdoch threatened to open the closet if Boris ran.

Boris is nothing if not pragmatic, and decided to fold and wait for a better spot.

Meanwhile Gove have succeeded in derailing the Boris train: but people should be aware that he is to the Tories what Corbyn is to Labour. His political ambition when Home Secretary meant that his pursuit of the expansion of Free Schools & Acadamies was to be done regardless of the views of the local communities. Neither he, nor most other politicians feel much other than disdain for the electorate. Hence why we are where we are. The electorate was just waiting for the opportunity to give the political class a proper bloody nose.

I don't know whether May will be a good PM, but IMHO she's the best candidate on the list.

[arbboy]

Gove split from Boris to run for PM because he couldn't extract the guarantees of high office that he wanted. Either that, or he realised that Boris as PM would be catastrophic - after all, he turned up for his first day as London Mayor claiming that he had "a full team in place", which turned out to be bullshit. He's also got a closet bursting with skeletons, and the rumour is that Murdoch threatened to open the closet if Boris ran.

Boris is nothing if not pragmatic, and decided to fold and wait for a better spot.

Meanwhile Gove have succeeded in derailing the Boris train: but people should be aware that he is to the Tories what Corbyn is to Labour. His political ambition when Home Secretary meant that his pursuit of the expansion of Free Schools & Acadamies was to be done regardless of the views of the local communities. Neither he, nor most other politicians feel much other than disdain for the electorate. Hence why we are where we are. The electorate was just waiting for the opportunity to give the political class a proper bloody nose.

I don't know whether May will be a good PM, but IMHO she's the best candidate on the list.

Very good summary of the situation.

[MintTrav]

Surely Gove knows he can't win though?

This. Am I missing something, why is Gove considered a contender, barely anyone knew him a month ago and he doesn't seem like a natural leader. Theresa May looks strong IMO, but god knows what could happen between now and then, I ain't ruling out dragons.

No-one knew him?

The guy is a movie star!

[JohnCharver]

Whether gove would have pulled the trigger without Boris's gaffe in the papers is very interesting. We will soon find out, as he is drifting like a barge and going to divide leadsoms vote, so he can no longer claim he was the leave candidate by necessity.

Clearly going to be the two tighty suggested atm. Think leadsom might just batter may in the way they come off in front of cameras. Least shes a true leave candidate and cant be discredited on economics as her history is clearly financial (some of it a little naughty). Think shes ideal to represent leavers, not a career politician and battered bankers over libor. Also when they interviewed her she lit up when they won, she clearly wants it and someone might finally make the positive case.