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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2180193 times)
TightEnd
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« Reply #6840 on: December 09, 2016, 10:48:12 AM »

this is a really good read, a debate between a leaver and a remainer. it has one "gasp" moment which is in the image attached but don't let that put you off

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/matthew-parris-vs-matt-ridley-on-brexit-bitterness/

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« Reply #6841 on: December 09, 2016, 11:48:25 AM »

paul waugh

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Jeremy Corbyn very quiet today.  The main opposition party losing share at byelections nothing to worry about Jezza? 

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« Reply #6842 on: December 09, 2016, 11:54:01 AM »

The thing I wonder about Jeremy Corbyn is, does he genuinely believe in himself?

Among his supporters he's a combination of Jesus and Elvis, can do no wrong and is on his way to Downing Street, but I never get the sense that he has bought into the hype and is only giving this whole leadership thing a go so as not to disappoint his supporters.
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TightEnd
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« Reply #6843 on: December 09, 2016, 11:55:49 AM »

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 42% (+3)
LAB: 25% (-2)
UKIP: 12% (-2)
LDEM: 11% (+2)
GRN: 4% (-)
(via YouGov / 04 - 05 Dec)

25% is labour's lowest % share in any poll by any pollster since it was last in government
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« Reply #6844 on: December 09, 2016, 11:57:31 AM »

part of a big national centre study out "understanding the leave vote"

http://whatukthinks.org/eu/analysis/understanding-the-leave-vote/

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« Reply #6845 on: December 09, 2016, 03:14:25 PM »

this is a really good read, a debate between a leaver and a remainer. it has one "gasp" moment which is in the image attached but don't let that put you off

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/matthew-parris-vs-matt-ridley-on-brexit-bitterness/



100% agree with everything he says.

Especially this:

"Immigration made a lot of people unhappy, I agree. The argument they then alighted on was that there was a lot more competition and queues in doctors’ surgeries — and the rest. I don’t accept that that actually was their own experience. I think they were looking for a respectable argument behind which to mount the real argument: that there were just too many foreigners around."

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« Reply #6846 on: December 09, 2016, 05:10:48 PM »

Momentum - the driving force making Labour unelectable for the next generation.  Utterly depressing reading, unless you vote Tory.

https://medium.com/@lauracatrionamurray/momentum-vs-inertia-e525c8f9e217#.vylsv3g41
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« Reply #6847 on: December 09, 2016, 05:38:01 PM »

Sigh.

 Click to see full-size image.
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« Reply #6848 on: December 09, 2016, 06:18:41 PM »

Sigh.

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Barred? No.....

They will just have to earn the minimum threshold to get them a visa as with people from outside the EU. That is perfectly fair imo, they need to show they can support their spouse without the need for use of public funds. I'd even be tempted to put that number up for people that live in London, can't support much on that salary down there.
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« Reply #6849 on: December 09, 2016, 06:54:46 PM »

this is a really good read, a debate between a leaver and a remainer. it has one "gasp" moment which is in the image attached but don't let that put you off

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/matthew-parris-vs-matt-ridley-on-brexit-bitterness/



100% agree with everything he says.

Especially this:

"Immigration made a lot of people unhappy, I agree. The argument they then alighted on was that there was a lot more competition and queues in doctors’ surgeries — and the rest. I don’t accept that that actually was their own experience. I think they were looking for a respectable argument behind which to mount the real argument: that there were just too many foreigners around."



It's such a weak line of argument.  "I won't engage with you on any immigration concern because I've already decided in my head that any disagreement is racism."  Pretty sure remain would have won if it weren't for attitudes like this.
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« Reply #6850 on: December 09, 2016, 06:57:46 PM »

this is a really good read, a debate between a leaver and a remainer. it has one "gasp" moment which is in the image attached but don't let that put you off

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/matthew-parris-vs-matt-ridley-on-brexit-bitterness/



100% agree with everything he says.

Especially this:

"Immigration made a lot of people unhappy, I agree. The argument they then alighted on was that there was a lot more competition and queues in doctors’ surgeries — and the rest. I don’t accept that that actually was their own experience. I think they were looking for a respectable argument behind which to mount the real argument: that there were just too many foreigners around."



It's such a weak line of argument.  "I won't engage with you on any immigration concern because I've already decided in my head that any disagreement is racism."  Pretty sure remain would have won if it weren't for attitudes like this.

100% correct, they are the masters of their own downfall, leave 'em to it I reckon...
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« Reply #6851 on: December 09, 2016, 07:04:07 PM »

this is a really good read, a debate between a leaver and a remainer. it has one "gasp" moment which is in the image attached but don't let that put you off

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/matthew-parris-vs-matt-ridley-on-brexit-bitterness/



100% agree with everything he says.

Especially this:

"Immigration made a lot of people unhappy, I agree. The argument they then alighted on was that there was a lot more competition and queues in doctors’ surgeries — and the rest. I don’t accept that that actually was their own experience. I think they were looking for a respectable argument behind which to mount the real argument: that there were just too many foreigners around."



It's such a weak line of argument.  "I won't engage with you on any immigration concern because I've already decided in my head that any disagreement is racism."  Pretty sure remain would have won if it weren't for attitudes like this.

100% correct, they are the masters of their own downfall, leave 'em to it I reckon...

Well as a remain vote I can't agree.  This sort of stuff makes me cringe.  If this Parris guy thinks they are wrong on immigration then he should attack their claims that there is more competition or waiting lines.  Otherwise concede there are downsides but point out the upsides of immigration.  Do anything really but run the pathetic line that people are simply racist and that's all there is to it.
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« Reply #6852 on: December 09, 2016, 07:09:53 PM »

this is a really good read, a debate between a leaver and a remainer. it has one "gasp" moment which is in the image attached but don't let that put you off

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/matthew-parris-vs-matt-ridley-on-brexit-bitterness/



100% agree with everything he says.

Especially this:

"Immigration made a lot of people unhappy, I agree. The argument they then alighted on was that there was a lot more competition and queues in doctors’ surgeries — and the rest. I don’t accept that that actually was their own experience. I think they were looking for a respectable argument behind which to mount the real argument: that there were just too many foreigners around."



It's such a weak line of argument.  "I won't engage with you on any immigration concern because I've already decided in my head that any disagreement is racism."  Pretty sure remain would have won if it weren't for attitudes like this.

100% correct, they are the masters of their own downfall, leave 'em to it I reckon...

Well as a remain vote I can't agree.  This sort of stuff makes me cringe.  If this Parris guy thinks they are wrong on immigration then he should attack their claims that there is more competition or waiting lines.  Otherwise concede there are downsides but point out the upsides of immigration.  Do anything really but run the pathetic line that people are simply racist and that's all there is to it.

Yep totally get your point, I think most people know that line is a load of nonsense anyway, but there is a hard core that like to throw it out there at any opportunity. I'm sure they are happy with the sense of smugness they get from doing it so hey ho....
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« Reply #6853 on: December 10, 2016, 02:10:50 PM »

Sigh.

 Click to see full-size image.


Barred? No.....

They will just have to earn the minimum threshold to get them a visa as with people from outside the EU. That is perfectly fair imo, they need to show they can support their spouse without the need for use of public funds. I'd even be tempted to put that number up for people that live in London, can't support much on that salary down there.


The rich telling the poor who they can or can't fall in love with.
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« Reply #6854 on: December 10, 2016, 02:16:52 PM »

Sigh.

 Click to see full-size image.


Barred? No.....

They will just have to earn the minimum threshold to get them a visa as with people from outside the EU. That is perfectly fair imo, they need to show they can support their spouse without the need for use of public funds. I'd even be tempted to put that number up for people that live in London, can't support much on that salary down there.


The rich telling the poor who they can or can't fall in love with.

£18k is hardly a difficult salary to get, work a full time job and some other part time work and you are there pretty easily. Apply for a fiancée visa, get married and 6 months later your other half can get a job on the next visa, her job then counts towards the £18k threshold. It really isn't that hard for anyone with an ounce of resourcefulness.
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