The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Doobs]

Now that the sky is falling in I can't grasp how the Labour Party is getting off so lightly. As the main opposition party where have they been throughout? Where were they during the lead up to the referendum with all the facts and tables predicting abject misery for everybody? Where have they been since the vote? Considering they are majority Remain why are they not using protest votes more readily? Where on earth is Jezza Corbyn?

It's all well and good saying the world is going to end. That Maybot has some impossible problem to juggle, shame on her. But where has the effective opposition been throughout? Embarrassing really.

because Corbyn is a bigger leaver than most

therefore effective opposition,and with it any remote hope of having an impact in de-railing the train before it his the buffers, is non-existent

So why are Labour MP's putting Corbyn's interests ahead of the country's when they vote on matters of such importance?

They have a chance of saving all our souls, putting pressure on Tory MP's to rebel but follow Corbyn instead.

And Corbyn is a thoroughly ineffective leader. Unable even, to make headway with Armageddon as a back drop.

VWP Labour in all this.

Problem is they have tried to kick him out twice, but it isn't possible now, because the majority of the membership are Corbyn supporters.   The supporters believe Corbyn is doing a great job and that he would have won the last election/labour would be ahead in the polls if it wasn't for the labour supporters/mps who weren't Corbyn supporters.   There is such bile thrown at non Corbyn followers that it becomes ever harder to have a sensible debate on the future of the labour party.  Even people who have been on the left of the labour party for years are simply dismissed as warmongers and neo liberals.   

FWIW a big chunk of labour MPs did rebel on the last vote, but you need more than 90 to defeat the Government. 

Pretty sad that both main parties are in such a state as we head towards choppy waters.

[TightEnd]

just out

YouGov poll of Unite members:

— 57% want another Brexit referendum (34% do not)
— Prefer prioritising free trade with EU over limiting immigration (61% to 30%)
— 59% oppose Labour Party’s approach to Brexit (29% don’t)

[neeko]

this is interesting too

someone kept  the original government pamphlet from the 1975 referendum on whether we should stay in the European Community (Common Market). These were the government’s estimated effects of leaving after 2 years of membership. Imagine the effects after 35+ years of integration

(also its much better than the remain campaign was!)

Interesting piece that - I guess they were very different times. Saying pretty much the same stuff I suppose but without the scornful tone (you'd have to be an idiot to want out) and peach shortages of course :-)

Seems much more adult but I guess immigration weighs much more heavily (post Maastricht and Amsterdam) as an issue today. It really was an economic decision back then.

The financlal crisis in 2008 and so called austerity since are factors but I think it's unarguable that the wage stagnation in the UK is largely down to freedom of movement and enlargement. Greed (Tories and Blair) has killed the goose

I disagree, it may have had some impact at the margin but the main reason is the movement of 10’s if not 100’s of millions of workers from the land into the cities of China, creating cheap labour for manufactured goods across the world. For that we could blame Fritz Haber who invented the process of converting nitrogen into ammonia used in the making of fertiliser.

[TightEnd]

Pay your money, take your choice....

[TightEnd]

Bleak review of Brexit Britain spares neither liberals nor conservatives from George Walden:

' A celebrity-diseased country in which Johnson, Corbyn and Rees-Mogg can become serious political figures is in danger of serious  self-harm.'

https://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/brexit-politics-george-walden/

[nirvana]

this is interesting too

someone kept  the original government pamphlet from the 1975 referendum on whether we should stay in the European Community (Common Market). These were the government’s estimated effects of leaving after 2 years of membership. Imagine the effects after 35+ years of integration

(also its much better than the remain campaign was!)

Interesting piece that - I guess they were very different times. Saying pretty much the same stuff I suppose but without the scornful tone (you'd have to be an idiot to want out) and peach shortages of course :-)

Seems much more adult but I guess immigration weighs much more heavily (post Maastricht and Amsterdam) as an issue today. It really was an economic decision back then.

The financlal crisis in 2008 and so called austerity since are factors but I think it's unarguable that the wage stagnation in the UK is largely down to freedom of movement and enlargement. Greed (Tories and Blair) has killed the goose

I disagree, it may have had some impact at the margin but the main reason is the movement of 10’s if not 100’s of millions of workers from the land into the cities of China, creating cheap labour for manufactured goods across the world. For that we could blame Fritz Haber who invented the process of converting nitrogen into ammonia used in the making of fertiliser.

Wow. I like this super macro view. Might be true in certain sectors of manufacturing but not all. Cessation more likely than wage stagnation as even stagnant wages would tend to be much higher than Chinese costs where a competition  is possible. Anyway will stop there as need to meditate on this

[TightEnd]

So, according to Peston, May's Brexit plan to be presented to Cabinet: 1) single market for goods, 2) new customs partnership 2.0 & 3) overseen by EFTA court.

Brexiteers will hate 1, 2 and 3. EU will reject 1 and think 2 is a nightmare (though they prefer it to max-fac).

https://www.facebook.com/1498276767163730/posts/2093159307675470/

[TightEnd]

So, according to Peston, May's Brexit plan to be presented to Cabinet: 1) single market for goods, 2) new customs partnership 2.0 & 3) overseen by EFTA court.

Brexiteers will hate 1, 2 and 3. EU will reject 1 and think 2 is a nightmare (though they prefer it to max-fac).

https://www.facebook.com/1498276767163730/posts/2093159307675470/

a very important read that. wonder if the EU will go for it?

[TightEnd]

Chuka Umunna accused of planning new party named "Back Together" - cover story from tomorrow's NS live now.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/06/how-brexiteers-lost-control …

[TightEnd]

 May is constantly playing for time because she doesn't have a sufficient majority to push through either a hard or soft Brexit and the EU won't give her what she wants which is a Swiss style sectoral agreement with something short of free movement.

crunch time begins this weekend at Chequers

[TightEnd]

Opinion: Stopping Brexit won't solve the UK's problems – we need to consider why people voted leave to do that

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/letters/brexit-stop-secon-referendum-bouncy-castle-ban-health-safety-british-summer-weather-nhs-70-a8427371.html

[TightEnd]

More than 30 Tory MPs sent may a letter over the weekend telling here to 'get tough" on Brussels and setting out areas on which they would not accept compromises. Brexit Central has the full text:

https://brexitcentral.com/full-text-get-tough-brussels-letter-sent-theresa-may-30-tory-mps/

[Doobs]

Nobody is going to notice Jared O'Mara rejoining the labour party when the footie is on.   I was under the impression we had been paying him to do feck all for the last few months. 

[TightEnd]

"We have a PM concocting schemes she doesn’t tell her ministers about which won’t fly with the EU anyway. Her ministers plotting to knife her. The economy dying, and nobody looking after the national interest"

https://infacts.org/cabinet-brexit-drama-descends-from-shambles-to-farce/

not an overwhelmingly positive article i am afraid

feel free to post them though

[TightEnd]

Andrew Neil tweets

far from no deal being better than a bad deal, the May Government now telling Brexiteers that no deal is not an option and that if they don’t accept what they think a “bad” deal then UK likely won’t be leaving EU at all. Simples!


Oh!