blonde poker forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
April 23, 2021, 03:23:42 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
2260023 Posts in 66603 Topics by 16869 Members
Latest Member: HughOlssen
* Home Help Arcade Search Calendar Guidelines Login Register
+  blonde poker forum
|-+  Community Forums
| |-+  The Lounge
| | |-+  The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged
0 Members and 9 Guests are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 56

Pages: 1 ... 1131 1132 1133 1134 [1135] 1136 1137 1138 1139 ... 1529 Go Down Print
Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 1329278 times)
Sheriff Fatman
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6076



View Profile
« Reply #17010 on: March 29, 2019, 04:25:44 PM »

So within minutes of the Withdrawal Agreement being voted down, the word in the lobbies is that, guess what, Theresa May is looking to bring back her deal for a vote next week.

https://twitter.com/GuardianHeather/status/1111654741011021824
Logged

"...And If You Flash Him A Smile He'll Take Your Teeth As Deposit..."
"Sheriff Fatman" - Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine

2006 Blonde Caption Comp Ultimate Champion (to be replaced by actual poker achievements when I have any)

GUKPT Online Main Event Winner 2008 (yay, a poker achievement!)
MANTIS01
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6723


What kind of fuckery is this?


View Profile
« Reply #17011 on: March 29, 2019, 04:52:31 PM »

Can somebody link me to an intelligent YouTube vid about freedom of movement pls

Something along the lines of I voted Leave primarily for improved immigration control but I didn’t know enough and now realise there would be even more freedom of movement after our exit

We’ve done the trade argument to death and wonder if we can put some focus on primary concerns many Leave voters held dear

I’ll see what I can find. It won’t be easy though, especially given that’s it not clear exactly what it is that people don’t like about immigration.

I’d say couldn’t be clearer, it’s the uncontrolled nature of it.

The only uncontrolled immigration is the free movement of EU citizens. The economic benefit of this has already been established.
https://www.ft.com/content/797f7b42-bb44-11e8-94b2-17176fbf93f5

Those leave voters who saw this as a primary concern seem to have a substandard level of knowledge of geography and an over-inflated view of how many refugees from various conflicts have arrived here.


Fosho the free movement of EU citizens is the issue and also fosho is the +EV economic value

But couldn’t open the link so can you confirm the study includes analysis of social infrastructure growth, success of integration, employment and wellbeing of existing communities, associated crime % of migrants etc..If it just extracts a single positive variable of dollar bills in isolation then meh.



The FT let’s me read one article a day I think, it’s sad you can’t access it because it covers a lot that might help you.

This is pretty comprehensive too
http://theconversation.com/what-eu-migration-has-done-for-the-uk-103461

There is a link to the full report there too.


Yo I read that but think it’s a red herring regarding social infrastructure and thus quality of life

It’s not enough to say EU migrants pay more in tax than they cost say the NHS

It’s about how much of their tax was used to invest in and grow the NHS to keep pace

If the answer is zero then quality of life for everyone goes down

As an example we have seen big cuts in police throughout a period of large net increase in migration, less housing, longer wait for GP and hospital appointments.

If we aren’t investing their positive tax contributions into social services growth I don’t believe continuing uncontrolled immigration solves this problem

You do know that correlation is not the same thing as causation?
All those extra tax pounds were spent in other ways. Paying Carillion and Interserve loads of money to do jobs badly (or not at all) for one example. Pushing on with the ludicrous HS2 vanity train set for another.
All of your examples of how our ‘quality of life’ has fallen can be payed at the door of government. A Tory government at that. Or you could just say that it’s all down to the greedy bankers that caused the financial meltdown.

If you consider the global and national problems over the past 12 years then maybe all them EU nationals coming over here and paying their damned taxes have meant that we have had a softer ride than we might have done. In economic and QoL terms.



Yes agree we can blame government and other folk. Yet that still doesn't solve the problem.

Point me to a government who invested more in services than population growth ever please.

If government simply doesn't and never has kept pace with improving services in line with growing demand I don't see how no control over the only element of population growth we can actually control helps those without a home to live in.
 
Thanks again to Doobs for breaking down the ethnicity of medical staff but it's really the declining quantity of doctors per head of population that seems more relevant to the point I'm making 
Logged

Tikay - "He has a proven track record in business, he is articulate, intelligent, & presents his cases well"

Claw75 - "Mantis is not only a blonde legend he's also very easy on the eye"

Outragous76 - "a really nice certainly intelligent guy"

taximan007 & Girgy85 & Celtic & Laxie - <3 Mantis
ripple11
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6314



View Profile
« Reply #17012 on: March 29, 2019, 04:58:40 PM »

So within minutes of the Withdrawal Agreement being voted down, the word in the lobbies is that, guess what, Theresa May is looking to bring back her deal for a vote next week.

https://twitter.com/GuardianHeather/status/1111654741011021824


Of course Mr. Speaker didn’t allow a Labour backbench amendment  ( accepted by the Govt) so that it had a much better chance of going through.
I hope no one thinks he is trying to frustrate this process of trying to move on in a reasonable and orderly way.
Logged
Sheriff Fatman
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6076



View Profile
« Reply #17013 on: March 29, 2019, 05:23:15 PM »

So within minutes of the Withdrawal Agreement being voted down, the word in the lobbies is that, guess what, Theresa May is looking to bring back her deal for a vote next week.

https://twitter.com/GuardianHeather/status/1111654741011021824


Of course Mr. Speaker didn’t allow a Labour backbench amendment  ( accepted by the Govt) so that it had a much better chance of going through.
I hope no one thinks he is trying to frustrate this process of trying to move on in a reasonable and orderly way.

Well he did let them bring it back in the first place, which was an unnecessary concession to May's vanity.

As for the amendment, it might at best have brought a few Labour people over, like Nandy, from big Leave constituencies.  However, the deal was dead once the DUP declared against it, along with the ERG members with enough self-respect to not change their vote on a basis of a promised leadership election.

I sincerely hope Mr Speaker now holds firm at any attempt to bring it back for a 4th time to suffer the same fate again.
Logged

"...And If You Flash Him A Smile He'll Take Your Teeth As Deposit..."
"Sheriff Fatman" - Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine

2006 Blonde Caption Comp Ultimate Champion (to be replaced by actual poker achievements when I have any)

GUKPT Online Main Event Winner 2008 (yay, a poker achievement!)
RED-DOG
International Lover World Wide Playboy
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 45593



View Profile WWW
« Reply #17014 on: March 29, 2019, 05:28:08 PM »

We can't seem to leave and at the moment were pissing everyone in the country off.

Why not stay and just piss half the people off?
Logged

How can we change the world?
One random act of kindness at at time.
ripple11
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6314



View Profile
« Reply #17015 on: March 29, 2019, 06:54:27 PM »

So within minutes of the Withdrawal Agreement being voted down, the word in the lobbies is that, guess what, Theresa May is looking to bring back her deal for a vote next week.

https://twitter.com/GuardianHeather/status/1111654741011021824


Of course Mr. Speaker didn’t allow a Labour backbench amendment  ( accepted by the Govt) so that it had a much better chance of going through.
I hope no one thinks he is trying to frustrate this process of trying to move on in a reasonable and orderly way.

Well he did let them bring it back in the first place, which was an unnecessary concession to May's vanity.

As for the amendment, it might at best have brought a few Labour people over, like Nandy, from big Leave constituencies.  However, the deal was dead once the DUP declared against it, along with the ERG members with enough self-respect to not change their vote on a basis of a promised leadership election.

I sincerely hope Mr Speaker now holds firm at any attempt to bring it back for a 4th time to suffer the same fate again.

So lets have a long extension with EU conditions and EU elections ......or a "no deal" if one of the EU 27 can't stand it any more! 

Both Tories and Labour agree with the WA and although not perfect, given where we are, it make sense to accept it so the country can move forward to the next more important phase !




Logged
nirvana
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7545



View Profile
« Reply #17016 on: March 29, 2019, 07:01:53 PM »

We can't seem to leave and at the moment were pissing everyone in the country off.

Why not stay and just piss half the people off?

Its not half - it's only about 26% and most of them will not be that pissed off. The ones that will be most pissed off are the leavers I identify least with so I won't be digging out a yellow vest.

Anyway, fear not, the minute a longer extension is announced it's over

Lets say we're in 2020 due to the extension and approaching 4 years since the vote - I don't know how to sustain an argument that says there shouldn't be another vote in recognition of 4 years of 'new' electors. It was just about sustainable up to now. Add the fact that leaving, by then, will be so much like remaining and it's basically all over bar the shouting.

The day the long extension is announced I'm gonna take back control, unfollow all politics related shite on twitter, and find something more worthwhile to read about and listen to every day.
Logged

sola virtus nobilitat
Sheriff Fatman
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6076



View Profile
« Reply #17017 on: March 29, 2019, 08:02:59 PM »

So lets have a long extension with EU conditions and EU elections ......or a "no deal" if one of the EU 27 can't stand it any more! 

Both Tories and Labour agree with the WA and although not perfect, given where we are, it make sense to accept it so the country can move forward to the next more important phase !

If Labour agreed with the Withdrawal Agreement surely they'd have supported it today?  Somewhat puzzled as to how you can make this statement, based on the available evidence, as there's been absolutely no indication of this to date.

In UK law, the Withdrawal Agreement has to be agreed simultaneously with the Political Declaration, so today's vote was a farce in the first place and was solely intended to bring about a situation where it's passing locked the UK into a framework where it left under 'a deal' by 22nd May.  Essentially a trap to leave Parliament with no alternative to May's PD in the absence of anything else.  They badged it as trying to buy more time to sort things out, but this was disingenuous as it leads to a single option to exit, not the alternatives available from not agreeing a deal by today.

As someone who voted Leave, I'm perfectly happy with the option of a long extension and will readily partake in the EU elections, as the logical step increasingly appears to be to hold a 2nd referendum (not a General Election for the reasons stated in my post yesterday) as it's the only way to resolve the impasse which is free from the party political game-playing that's now dominating the proceedings in Parliament.  I'd be quite happy if this is some form of confirmatory vote on an agreed deal of some kind or something else which gives a clear choice between a realistically deliverable Leave option and remaining.

If one of the EU members wants to play hardball on not agreeing a longer extension, then we ultimately have to rely on our unilateral right to revoke A50 and start the whole thing again.  Still better than a no deal exit where we get no benefits and still end up paying the £39bn bill to engage in post-exit negotiations that follow.
Logged

"...And If You Flash Him A Smile He'll Take Your Teeth As Deposit..."
"Sheriff Fatman" - Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine

2006 Blonde Caption Comp Ultimate Champion (to be replaced by actual poker achievements when I have any)

GUKPT Online Main Event Winner 2008 (yay, a poker achievement!)
teddybloat
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 727


View Profile
« Reply #17018 on: March 29, 2019, 08:08:32 PM »

I think we should just cancel it and get on with the rioting and destroying of constituency offices.

Get it all out of our system
Logged
MANTIS01
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6723


What kind of fuckery is this?


View Profile
« Reply #17019 on: March 29, 2019, 09:21:03 PM »

Amazing to think we bowl round the world attacking other regimes enforcing them to adopt our great democratic system

If we had a Kim Jung type dictator this would be done & dusted long time since

And i wouldn’t be dealing with these overcrowding issues.

Earlier today I was jostled in Waitrose by the deli counter and a trolley dinked my ankle in craft ales. Never used to be this bad, thoroughly perturbing darling.
Logged

Tikay - "He has a proven track record in business, he is articulate, intelligent, & presents his cases well"

Claw75 - "Mantis is not only a blonde legend he's also very easy on the eye"

Outragous76 - "a really nice certainly intelligent guy"

taximan007 & Girgy85 & Celtic & Laxie - <3 Mantis
RED-DOG
International Lover World Wide Playboy
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 45593



View Profile WWW
« Reply #17020 on: March 29, 2019, 09:40:12 PM »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-47734673
Logged

How can we change the world?
One random act of kindness at at time.
aaron1867
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3659



View Profile
« Reply #17021 on: March 29, 2019, 09:42:20 PM »

What happened at that Brexit rally today?

They abused black men & women

Numerous arrests

Cheered for Tommy Robinson.
Logged
kukushkin88
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3878



View Profile
« Reply #17022 on: March 30, 2019, 12:38:17 PM »

Can somebody link me to an intelligent YouTube vid about freedom of movement pls

Something along the lines of I voted Leave primarily for improved immigration control but I didn’t know enough and now realise there would be even more freedom of movement after our exit

We’ve done the trade argument to death and wonder if we can put some focus on primary concerns many Leave voters held dear

How dare you raise the I word you racist.... Grin

Any chance that you might actually contribute something worthwhile to the debate some time?
Or do you save your thoughtful contributions for the Lodge?

It is an odd phenomenon, the internet troll.

Small (almost irrelevant) point of order: we can add what I do for a living to the long list of things that Woodsey is ignorant of.

May I ask what it is you do for a living?

If you have already said I've either missed it or forgotten.

I’m technically an engineer (BEng), although I also have a Geography degree combined with Psychology. I work for the government investigating and prosecuting (as an ‘expert’ (thin brag) witness) large scale pollution events involving big industry, mainly those that impact waterbodies but also to land and air. I spend  ~10-15% of my time in court or on court prep, 30% on what we call ‘incident response’ and the rest office based/desk study.

Woodsey will be delighted to know that we have brought prosecutions against Sewage Treatment Works and no doubt will again, so his efforts on the rancid curry/toilet might not be entirely wasted when it comes to making my life a certain (infinitesimally small) amount less pleasant.


Hugely off-topic, but presumably you are aware of this utterly fascinating case in the USA?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis

I was aware but strangely more to do with my interest in politics than a direct link to work, agreed it’s a fascinating story. We do a lot of work to ensure similar events don’t happen here.
Logged
ripple11
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6314



View Profile
« Reply #17023 on: March 30, 2019, 06:10:21 PM »

So lets have a long extension with EU conditions and EU elections ......or a "no deal" if one of the EU 27 can't stand it any more! 

Both Tories and Labour agree with the WA and although not perfect, given where we are, it make sense to accept it so the country can move forward to the next more important phase !

If Labour agreed with the Withdrawal Agreement surely they'd have supported it today?  Somewhat puzzled as to how you can make this statement, based on the available evidence, as there's been absolutely no indication of this to date.



 They accept the WA.......they only want to change the PD.  I didn't hear a word against it yesterday from Labour MP's.

“We’ve been very clear, that it is done and dusted, we have never said we would seek to reopen the Withdrawal Agreement… We have to accept what the European Union is saying about the Withdrawal Agreement, and has consistently said for six months”.

John Healey Shadow Minister

“I certainly accept the proposition that the EU has said that the Withdrawal Agreement is not for reopening at any stage, and it has resisted that for month after month from the Government.”
Kier Starmer


“The Labour leader says that while the Prime Minister is focused on negotiating changes to the backstop, she needs to enshrine five changes to the Political Declaration in law to secure Labour support for a sensible deal that can bring the country together”.

Corbyn's letter to May...no mention of the WA.


They played party politics yesterday, instead of helping to move Brexit, which they support, forward at this crucial stage. Govt offered Parliament a vote on the PD as per amendment, and surely a softer brexit/PD is going to be indicated next week.

I see Denis Skinner abstained yesterday...my new hero  Smiley
Logged
Cf
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8086



View Profile
« Reply #17024 on: March 30, 2019, 07:03:31 PM »

Oh behave. As much as many of us are dismayed with labour these days to try and claim any of this is on them and they should have accepted the PMs blackmail attempt is ridiculous.
Logged

Blue text
Pages: 1 ... 1131 1132 1133 1134 [1135] 1136 1137 1138 1139 ... 1529 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.374 seconds with 23 queries.