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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 56

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 1328537 times)
RickBFA
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« Reply #17055 on: April 02, 2019, 10:26:13 PM »

When people mention polls be back up their arguement can we get a link or reference to the poll? It completely invalidates using it as evidence if you don’t.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/361

This was what I looked at when referencing over 70% thought immigration too high etc
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RickBFA
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« Reply #17056 on: April 02, 2019, 10:29:11 PM »

By any reasonable measure, it is pretty outrageous that MP’s could back a Norway style deal.

Freedom of movement still allowed? Really Huh??

There is no regard in Parliament for the will of the people - people voted for Brexit for control of our own destiny, our own borders, our own laws.

No one voted for Brexit expecting a deal to involve continued freedom of movement, in fact, both main parties agreed to end it.

As usual it’s the political elite saying fuck you to voters. We’ll do what we want, not what you voted for.



I missed the referendum where people had so much choice - didn't people just vote to leave?

You think people that voted to leave wanted to retain EU controls/law making?

They voted to leave and that clearly involved ending freedom of movement. The polls indicated that was what people wanted and the main stream parties adopted that policy. There really wasn’t any grey area in that respect.

Every person that voted leave that I have spoken to was clear that us taking control was what they wanted.

The idea that free movement of people should be an option beggars belief.



Many people, such as Jacob Rees-Mogg (for example) have long had a problem with Parliamentary sovereignty being replaced by EU sovereignty - that's why a lot of people voted leave.

I just had a look at opinion polls - they suggest that half* of those who voted for leave did so because of immigration.

So if less than 9 million people have a problem with freedom of movement in the EU and well over 50 million people don't - to me that doesn't seem too unreasonable for it to be an option.


*about 48% mentioned it - only about a third said it was the important reason.

Hey mate, how do you arrive at a figure of 50m don’t have a problem with freedom of movement?

You saying if they didn’t offer an opinion you’re going to give them one? Hmmm.

Okay then - strictly speaking the polling shows less than 9 million people have a problem with freedom of movement and slightly more than that say they don't; and of the remaining 50ish million people the majority either don't care enough to want to leave the EU about it  or think that the benefit of staying in the EU outweighs the issue anyway.

Maybe that's slightly more nuanced than who cares and who doesn't - but I don't really see how it changes the argument.

Less than 9 million people out of a population of over 66 million think it's important - still doesn't seem overly outrageous for it to be up for debate.

See my post above. A majority had a problem with it.
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Doobs
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« Reply #17057 on: April 02, 2019, 10:29:20 PM »

 How May's latest move is described in the Guardian

Having kicked the can down the road for months on end in a desperate effort to keep her party together, she was now kicking it firmly into the Labour leader’s face.

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Pokerpops
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« Reply #17058 on: April 02, 2019, 11:09:12 PM »

When people mention polls be back up their arguement can we get a link or reference to the poll? It completely invalidates using it as evidence if you don’t.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/361

This was what I looked at when referencing over 70% thought immigration too high etc

You do know that poll is three years old, and that Migration Watch is the ‘go to’ think tank for the Mail and the Express?
As Sir Humphrey demonstrated to Bernard in Yes, Prime Minister it is pretty easy to get poll results that suit your agenda. The hard task is creating a poll that gets a genuine representation of the views of the nation.

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aaron1867
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« Reply #17059 on: April 03, 2019, 12:31:52 AM »

Absolutely thrilled to have seen today scenes - This really is the end of Brexit - Thank God.

The leave voters who voted for that god damn bus - They won't admit they was fooled by it.

The leave voters who say let's keep the £39bn from the EU - But in reality deal or no deal, they will still have to pay out most of it.

The leave voters who believed that we should stop sending money to the EU every week - But don't realise the country gets a lot of it back for certain projects and so on.

The leave voters who believed Turkey was joining the EU - They're not.

The leave voters who want control of their laws - But yet, when questioned, they don't really know what laws they want changing.

The leave voters who think the best way of protesting against this is by climbing downing street gates, fighting in Parliament Square, hurling racist abuse at families and their special Guest? Yes, it's the highly honourable Tommy Robinson.

You couldn't make it up really, so forgive me whilst I enjoy this.

And whilst it all happens, these leave voters will fight you in the street if you mention that People's Vote. That actual vote that might get you that Brexit with what you want.

52% voted for Brexit - But you won't be getting it.
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BigAdz
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« Reply #17060 on: April 03, 2019, 01:30:50 AM »

Bless you Aaron for remaining totally clueless about what any remainer actually believes, knows or wants.

The only people I have ever heard or read that think like that are the Remoaners telling us how Leavers think.

For all your white noise over the last few months, the ONLY thing I can take from all your posts has been your moaning about a people's vote. That's it.

You have been as interesting to interact with as that twat waving his board shouting STOP BREXIT. Ever seen an interview with him?

So if all this waste of money and time leaves you pleased because you got what you want, democracy undermined, then more fool you. Enjoy your short-lived victory, if that's how you see it.

But for all your bleating you really haven't got a clue. If you ever bothered to look beyond your own cosy little pink world you would see there are troubled times ahead, and soon you won't be quite so smug.
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #17061 on: April 03, 2019, 06:28:23 AM »

By any reasonable measure, it is pretty outrageous that MP’s could back a Norway style deal.

Freedom of movement still allowed? Really Huh??

There is no regard in Parliament for the will of the people - people voted for Brexit for control of our own destiny, our own borders, our own laws.

No one voted for Brexit expecting a deal to involve continued freedom of movement, in fact, both main parties agreed to end it.

As usual it’s the political elite saying fuck you to voters. We’ll do what we want, not what you voted for.



I missed the referendum where people had so much choice - didn't people just vote to leave?

You think people that voted to leave wanted to retain EU controls/law making?

They voted to leave and that clearly involved ending freedom of movement. The polls indicated that was what people wanted and the main stream parties adopted that policy. There really wasn’t any grey area in that respect.

Every person that voted leave that I have spoken to was clear that us taking control was what they wanted.

The idea that free movement of people should be an option beggars belief.



Many people, such as Jacob Rees-Mogg (for example) have long had a problem with Parliamentary sovereignty being replaced by EU sovereignty - that's why a lot of people voted leave.

I just had a look at opinion polls - they suggest that half* of those who voted for leave did so because of immigration.

So if less than 9 million people have a problem with freedom of movement in the EU and well over 50 million people don't - to me that doesn't seem too unreasonable for it to be an option.


*about 48% mentioned it - only about a third said it was the important reason.

Hey mate, how do you arrive at a figure of 50m don’t have a problem with freedom of movement?

You saying if they didn’t offer an opinion you’re going to give them one? Hmmm.

Okay then - strictly speaking the polling shows less than 9 million people have a problem with freedom of movement and slightly more than that say they don't; and of the remaining 50ish million people the majority either don't care enough to want to leave the EU about it  or think that the benefit of staying in the EU outweighs the issue anyway.

Maybe that's slightly more nuanced than who cares and who doesn't - but I don't really see how it changes the argument.

Less than 9 million people out of a population of over 66 million think it's important - still doesn't seem overly outrageous for it to be up for debate.

Or perhaps 50 million simply didn’t offer an opinion because they’re disengaged with the process

Chiefly because when majority opinions are offered they aren’t enacted
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Pokerpops
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« Reply #17062 on: April 03, 2019, 07:00:02 AM »

Bless you Aaron for remaining totally clueless about what any remainer actually believes, knows or wants.

The only people I have ever heard or read that think like that are the Remoaners telling us how Leavers think.

For all your white noise over the last few months, the ONLY thing I can take from all your posts has been your moaning about a people's vote. That's it.

You have been as interesting to interact with as that twat waving his board shouting STOP BREXIT. Ever seen an interview with him?

So if all this waste of money and time leaves you pleased because you got what you want, democracy undermined, then more fool you. Enjoy your short-lived victory, if that's how you see it.

But for all your bleating you really haven't got a clue. If you ever bothered to look beyond your own cosy little pink world you would see there are troubled times ahead, and soon you won't be quite so smug.

Welcome back
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nirvana
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« Reply #17063 on: April 03, 2019, 07:32:38 AM »

Absolutely thrilled to have seen today scenes - This really is the end of Brexit - Thank God.

The leave voters who voted for that god damn bus - They won't admit they was fooled by it.

The leave voters who say let's keep the £39bn from the EU - But in reality deal or no deal, they will still have to pay out most of it.

The leave voters who believed that we should stop sending money to the EU every week - But don't realise the country gets a lot of it back for certain projects and so on.

The leave voters who believed Turkey was joining the EU - They're not.

The leave voters who want control of their laws - But yet, when questioned, they don't really know what laws they want changing.

The leave voters who think the best way of protesting against this is by climbing downing street gates, fighting in Parliament Square, hurling racist abuse at families and their special Guest? Yes, it's the highly honourable Tommy Robinson.

You couldn't make it up really, so forgive me whilst I enjoy this.

And whilst it all happens, these leave voters will fight you in the street if you mention that People's Vote. That actual vote that might get you that Brexit with what you want.

52% voted for Brexit - But you won't be getting it.

Can't believe you're celebrating while my tinned peach futures have taken a battering.
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Mark_Porter
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« Reply #17064 on: April 03, 2019, 11:29:37 AM »

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/02/opinion/brexit-news.html
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Sheriff Fatman
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« Reply #17065 on: April 03, 2019, 11:31:45 AM »

How May's latest move is described in the Guardian

Having kicked the can down the road for months on end in a desperate effort to keep her party together, she was now kicking it firmly into the Labour leader’s face.

It was a bizarre speech to listen to, even by her standards.

After 7 hours of negotiations, it can only be a tactic to ultimately try to get her MPs to support her deal as a last resort.  Go through the motions of talking to Corbyn, which will enrage half of his party anyway, give the ERG the perception that they're losing the hardest form of Brexit they'll be able to get (i.e. her deal) and bring back MV4 at the last minute.

I can't see any other logic to it.
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« Reply #17066 on: April 03, 2019, 12:18:04 PM »


I think you are right, just more leverage on the hardliners. It’s bizarre to listen to her at PMQ’s as well, just listing complete and utter bullshit as supposed achievements of her government. Good line about JC singing the praises of the last Labour government though, he’s foolish to do that.
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #17067 on: April 03, 2019, 12:23:36 PM »


Good fun exchanges with Nigel Adams :-) She missed a perfect spot for ‘he has enough on his plate already’.
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RickBFA
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« Reply #17068 on: April 03, 2019, 12:36:55 PM »

When people mention polls be back up their arguement can we get a link or reference to the poll? It completely invalidates using it as evidence if you don’t.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/361

This was what I looked at when referencing over 70% thought immigration too high etc

You do know that poll is three years old, and that Migration Watch is the ‘go to’ think tank for the Mail and the Express?
As Sir Humphrey demonstrated to Bernard in Yes, Prime Minister it is pretty easy to get poll results that suit your agenda. The hard task is creating a poll that gets a genuine representation of the views of the nation.



Yes I saw the age and source. We were talking about the view of the public in the lead up to Brexit - the age is very relevant given that context.
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MintTrav
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« Reply #17069 on: April 03, 2019, 06:41:02 PM »

By any reasonable measure, it is pretty outrageous that MP’s could back a Norway style deal.

Freedom of movement still allowed? Really Huh??

There is no regard in Parliament for the will of the people - people voted for Brexit for control of our own destiny, our own borders, our own laws.

No one voted for Brexit expecting a deal to involve continued freedom of movement, in fact, both main parties agreed to end it.

As usual it’s the political elite saying fuck you to voters. We’ll do what we want, not what you voted for.



I missed the referendum where people had so much choice - didn't people just vote to leave?

You think people that voted to leave wanted to retain EU controls/law making?

They voted to leave and that clearly involved ending freedom of movement. The polls indicated that was what people wanted and the main stream parties adopted that policy. There really wasn’t any grey area in that respect.

Every person that voted leave that I have spoken to was clear that us taking control was what they wanted.

The idea that free movement of people should be an option beggars belief.



Many people, such as Jacob Rees-Mogg (for example) have long had a problem with Parliamentary sovereignty being replaced by EU sovereignty - that's why a lot of people voted leave.

I just had a look at opinion polls - they suggest that half* of those who voted for leave did so because of immigration.

So if less than 9 million people have a problem with freedom of movement in the EU and well over 50 million people don't - to me that doesn't seem too unreasonable for it to be an option.


*about 48% mentioned it - only about a third said it was the important reason.

Hey mate, how do you arrive at a figure of 50m don’t have a problem with freedom of movement?

You saying if they didn’t offer an opinion you’re going to give them one? Hmmm.

Okay then - strictly speaking the polling shows less than 9 million people have a problem with freedom of movement and slightly more than that say they don't; and of the remaining 50ish million people the majority either don't care enough to want to leave the EU about it  or think that the benefit of staying in the EU outweighs the issue anyway.

Maybe that's slightly more nuanced than who cares and who doesn't - but I don't really see how it changes the argument.

Less than 9 million people out of a population of over 66 million think it's important - still doesn't seem overly outrageous for it to be up for debate.

See my post above. A majority had a problem with it.

Whatever the number, even if it’s ‘only’ 9m, it’s clearly a poor show. Irrespective of individual views on Brexit, I’m sure at least we can agree that this problem needs to be addressed.
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