The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[kukushkin88]

I'm no fan of liars but I don't think Vote Leave lied much at all - people talk about the bus and future accessions. For sure some of the material could easily mislead some people and I'd prefer politics wasn't like that, but lies is a bit OTT in my view

This very long list of lies is well researched and decently sourced. Would be interesting if you can refute any of them.

https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/long-list-leave-lies/

The bus should have used the net figure , not gross, so people can claim "a lie". However the message was so powerful the net figure would have worked just as well!

I’m not sure what to say. Lying is OK because not lying would have achieved the same thing? Speaks for itself I guess. It is the same as Mantis’s point, I’m not sure even Aaron could top that. As always worth noting that we have no idea whether it would have had the same impact. I think it would have done as well but we’re all only guessing.

[kukushkin88]

I'm no fan of liars but I don't think Vote Leave lied much at all - people talk about the bus and future accessions. For sure some of the material could easily mislead some people and I'd prefer politics wasn't like that, but lies is a bit OTT in my view

This very long list of lies is well researched and decently sourced. Would be interesting if you can refute any of them.

https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/long-list-leave-lies/

The bus should have used the net figure , not gross, so people can claim "a lie". However the message was so powerful the net figure would have worked just as well!

I’m not sure what to say. Lying is OK because not lying would have achieved the same thing? Speaks for itself I guess. It is the same as Mantis’s point, I’m not sure even Aaron could top that. As always worth noting that we have no idea whether it would have had the same impact. I think it would have done as well but we’re all only guessing.

Also it would be interesting to know if this strange rule applies to all lies?

[nirvana]

Jo Swinson already undoing all the work done by Cable. She’s called for a no confidence and it’s so utterly stupid and immature. Already get the feeling that the voters Lib Dem’s might come close to picking up might get disillusioned by her.

!

All the good work done by Cable? He completely dropped the ball.

Swinson will be hugely popular once the remain part of the voter base gets to know her

The call for no confidence is entirely sensible (improbable right now of course) as it once again highlights Corbyn's vacillation.

Corbyn a) wants Brexit and b) wants to own none of it, so won't do it until later in the year. Of course as we have seen in the recent elections a strategy of fence sitting means no one knows what the party's policy is, still

Another reason why an early election must appeal to Johnson

She's terrible. An inflatable balloon even with a whiny voice would appeal to the remainiacs

really?

I think she has got a lot of potential.

You might be right about potential and she's a better bet than Davey for the LDs. Right now though I probably see her thru the Brexit lens and in light of her participation in the coalition. Makes the LDs come over to me as party of cry speakers railing against Brexit (a temporary thing) and bandwagoners of any climate change virtue signalling up for grabs but without any convictions about much else. Mainly just her voice and style though

Was just watching her on politics live from earlier - did a good job at batting Clive Lewis's nonsense away and was pretty robust. Maybe shes gonna grow on me

[Pokerpops]

Exaggeration is a staple of political discourse.
As is the erection of a straw man argument.

The skilled use of such devices is a prerequisite for political success. Doesn’t matter who you support, they have been guilty of using or attempting to use them in order to achieve a position of power from which they can then deliver their policies.

Boris has achieved that position, well almost achieved it given the overall political picture. I wouldn’t bet against him getting a firmer grip on power sooner rather than later. Especially given the state of those who will be trying to stop him.

[TightEnd]

Rees-Mogg very assured on his despatch box debut. Most significant thing was his dismissal of ‘mere motions’, clear that only a change in the law on the Brexit date would be considered relevant by this government

He also said "he PM "views proroguing as an archaic mechanism and does not wish to see archaic mechanisms used - as I am now bound by collective responsibility, that is also now my view."

Crick said

"Making Jacob Rees-Mogg Leader of the House - rather than Chief Secretary - could be Johnson’s masterstroke.  Procedural nerd JRM will know better than anyone how to thwart Remainer manoeuvres, particularly against No Deal.  JRM v Grieve & JRM v Bercow will be fascinating tussles."

[TightEnd]

Interesting timetable

[TightEnd]

Sir Nicholas Soames making clear his deep concerns about Boris Johnson premiership and opening changes and doesn’t rule out voting it down

“It may be the only thing to do is a government of National unity”


going to be a huge battle through to 31 Oct

[TightEnd]

Behr reports

"Division in Johnson cabinet will be between those that understand *why* EU will not give UK open-ended borderless market access in 'standstill transition' and those that simply don't get it."

[TightEnd]

In these mad times it's easy to miss details - the head of Number 10's policy unit is now Munira Mirza who was a member of the Revolutionary Communist Party in its dying years. Munira is (or certainly was) very pally indeed with the likes of Claire Fox - Brexit Party MEP.

Chloe Westley of the UK TaxPayers' Allliance is also in the advisers, and Cummings we know

its a vote leave takeover of No 10 in essence

[TightEnd]

Faisal goes through

Borisnomics  - new PM’s hands on three significant levers to reshape economic policy

- Trade policy via some sort of Brexit
- Fiscal Policy loosen rules to spend/end austerity
- Monetary Policy - choosing new Bank of England Gov, to help boost econ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48941691

[TightEnd]

and following on from that

Tories (Cummings) flooding Facebook with Boris Johnson ads. Likely testing messages ahead of a planned general election campaign.

obv leave campaign 2016 had a huge success with social and new media compared to stuffy old remain

https://www.channel4.com/news/could-online-adverts-promoting-boris-johnson-be-a-sign-that-a-general-election-will-be-called

[TightEnd]

rent a quotes are still well in business

Mark Francois tells newsnight that even without the backstop *in its entirety* he and the ERG wouldn’t vote for the Withdrawal Agreement not least because Johnson has said it’s dead, repeatedly.

link to video https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1154508020908343297?s=20


(Why would the EU even try and negotiate anything when the PM can’t deliver the ERG votes? An obvious question)

[TightEnd]

really really good thread


Nick Gutteridge

"1/ I've done this before but on a day like today it's worth remembering the striking difference in the way the EU and  UK see the backstop. From the Brussels furnace, based on  convos with officials/diplomats, the EU perspective (not advocating either way just reporting as ever)."


https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/status/1154450103794425857?s=20

[TightEnd]

James O’Brien explains how he thinks Boris Johnson’s Premiership is going to pan out.

pretty similar to the Sypis thread posted by Sheriff yesterday

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-on-boris-johnson-prime-minister/

[TightEnd]

Here’s the Barnier email to EU member states calling Boris’ statement “rather combative” and basically un-negotiable. (which it would be at this stage if Boris is going to do a pre-emptive election pinning it on remain /EU and gaming a parliamentary majority to get leverage to get them to deal )