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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2180546 times)
RED-DOG
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« Reply #19470 on: August 06, 2019, 10:46:09 AM »

Forgive me if I've missed the answer to this, but how can parliament prevent no deal if Boris doesn't re open negotiations and doesn't ask for an extension?
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« Reply #19471 on: August 06, 2019, 10:54:09 AM »

Forgive me if I've missed the answer to this, but how can parliament prevent no deal if Boris doesn't re open negotiations and doesn't ask for an extension?

It isn’t actually clear if they can. The theory is that he loses the vote of no confidence, requiring a caretaker PM. The (perfectly) credible suggestion is that he can just tough it out and a GE follows but we do leave on 31/10/2019. Cummings thinks you need to burn it down if you’re going to rebuild it, it will be an interesting time if we get to find out whether Boris has the balls to let that play out. Most likely with faux reluctance and even fauxer (sic) deep regret, he asks the EU for an extension to allow for a GE.
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« Reply #19472 on: August 06, 2019, 11:23:49 AM »

Forgive me if I've missed the answer to this, but how can parliament prevent no deal if Boris doesn't re open negotiations and doesn't ask for an extension?

It isn’t actually clear if they can. The theory is that he loses the vote of no confidence, requiring a caretaker PM. The (perfectly) credible suggestion is that he can just tough it out and a GE follows but we do leave on 31/10/2019. Cummings thinks you need to burn it down if you’re going to rebuild it, it will be an interesting time if we get to find out whether Boris has the balls to let that play out. Most likely with faux reluctance and even fauxer (sic) deep regret, he asks the EU for an extension to allow for a GE.

Thanks.

I have to say, whatever anyone's party or viewpoint, the whole thing is an absolutely monumental shambles.
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« Reply #19473 on: August 06, 2019, 11:50:12 AM »

Does Boris Johnson have to resign as prime minister if he loses a confidence vote? The answer is complicated

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/08/does-boris-johnson-have-resign-prime-minister-if-he-loses-confidence-vote
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« Reply #19474 on: August 06, 2019, 11:51:24 AM »

Toby Young says

"if Boris loses a VoNC he won’t resign; he’ll run down the clock until he loses a VoC and then call an election, with polling day after Oct 31st." For chapter and verse, see blog in the spectator

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/should-brexiteers-try-and-form-an-electoral-pact/
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« Reply #19475 on: August 06, 2019, 11:56:12 AM »

so, leaving aside whether Parliament can stop no deal or not

The Guardian asks

"Boris Johnson has no intention of renegotiating Brexit deal, EU told

So why is the Prime Minister’s entire leadership based on a lie?"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/05/no-deal-brexit-is-boris-johnsons-central-scenario-eu-told


--

personally i still don't know if this "don't go to talk to the EU and Ireland, wait for them to blink" is a genuine pre-cursor to no deal or a bluff to convince the public, EU and businesses that its happening and to get ready asap

I suppose as time passes the odds in favour of the former shorten, and with no majority and a Parliament that is uncooperative no deal by inaction seems more likely.
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« Reply #19476 on: August 06, 2019, 01:48:32 PM »

so, leaving aside whether Parliament can stop no deal or not

The Guardian asks

"Boris Johnson has no intention of renegotiating Brexit deal, EU told

So why is the Prime Minister’s entire leadership based on a lie?"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/05/no-deal-brexit-is-boris-johnsons-central-scenario-eu-told


--

personally i still don't know if this "don't go to talk to the EU and Ireland, wait for them to blink" is a genuine pre-cursor to no deal or a bluff to convince the public, EU and businesses that its happening and to get ready asap

I suppose as time passes the odds in favour of the former shorten, and with no majority and a Parliament that is uncooperative no deal by inaction seems more likely.

What options do we have. From the EU the message is simple. Accept the current WA or don't. The only party with a majority to accept the deal is the Tories. Ergo.. The no dealers are just about everyone outside the tory party and 30 or so Tories. The people crying about no deal are the people taking us towards it. Boris is doing an incredible job of following through on parliaments wish to not accept the WA
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« Reply #19477 on: August 06, 2019, 01:56:11 PM »

Steady on! Let’s be careful cos if we can’t blame Boris for No Deal and no baby medicine we are in a real blame game quandary. How will Remain cope with this turn of events.
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« Reply #19478 on: August 06, 2019, 01:57:10 PM »

Its not parliament's wish to no deal nor was it stated in our 2016 vote. no deal was barely mentioned until 2017.

If he gets the EU to blink then great but not sure they can without throwing Ireland under the bus

So he is pursuing a policy for hard brexiteers who in many cases won't be affected by no deal.
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« Reply #19479 on: August 06, 2019, 02:02:54 PM »

Steady on! Let’s be careful cos if we can’t blame Boris for No Deal and no baby medicine we are in a real blame game quandary. How will Remain cope with this turn of events.

In what world do we not blame Boris? He is more obviously to blame now than at any stage. Particularly while he has no solution for the border, he can shoulder a very healthy portion of the blame.

I do think there’s some merit in the new PM/newly elected European Parliament line of necessity for new negotiations but the balance of actual power won’t have changed.
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« Reply #19480 on: August 06, 2019, 05:30:29 PM »

Steady on! Let’s be careful cos if we can’t blame Boris for No Deal and no baby medicine we are in a real blame game quandary. How will Remain cope with this turn of events.

In what world do we not blame Boris? He is more obviously to blame now than at any stage. Particularly while he has no solution for the border, he can shoulder a very healthy portion of the blame.

I do think there’s some merit in the new PM/newly elected European Parliament line of necessity for new negotiations but the balance of actual power won’t have changed.

Phew! Thank goodness for that. Thought Remain were gonna stop blaming folk which wudda caused me more uncertainty and wariness than Brexit itself.
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« Reply #19481 on: August 06, 2019, 05:40:12 PM »

Its not parliament's wish to no deal nor was it stated in our 2016 vote. no deal was barely mentioned until 2017.

If he gets the EU to blink then great but not sure they can without throwing Ireland under the bus

So he is pursuing a policy for hard brexiteers who in many cases won't be affected by no deal.

It's really not the point - parliament doesn't want no deal so you would think they want a deal. But they don't - parliament (which appears to have huge respect for the EU) seems to take pleasure in rejecting the deal that the EU (which parliament appears to have huge respect for) has said is the only deal on offer.

So if Parliament rejects the only deal on offer (the only deal mind) then as Theresa often asked, what does parliament want ?

The parliament should tell us explicitly what they want (ie revoke) rather than wander round aimlessly for 3 years muttering things like peoples vote, bollocks to them.
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« Reply #19482 on: August 06, 2019, 05:43:52 PM »

Steady on! Let’s be careful cos if we can’t blame Boris for No Deal and no baby medicine we are in a real blame game quandary. How will Remain cope with this turn of events.

In what world do we not blame Boris? He is more obviously to blame now than at any stage. Particularly while he has no solution for the border, he can shoulder a very healthy portion of the blame.

I do think there’s some merit in the new PM/newly elected European Parliament line of necessity for new negotiations but the balance of actual power won’t have changed.

Tell me how this works - Boris wants a deal -he voted for it at least once. The parliament rejects a deal. The EU says there is no other deal. If you're a democrat like Boris, revoke isn't an option, a second vote isn't an option. How is he to blame if there is no deal ?
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« Reply #19483 on: August 06, 2019, 05:56:32 PM »

Steady on! Let’s be careful cos if we can’t blame Boris for No Deal and no baby medicine we are in a real blame game quandary. How will Remain cope with this turn of events.

In what world do we not blame Boris? He is more obviously to blame now than at any stage. Particularly while he has no solution for the border, he can shoulder a very healthy portion of the blame.

I do think there’s some merit in the new PM/newly elected European Parliament line of necessity for new negotiations but the balance of actual power won’t have changed.

Tell me how this works - Boris wants a deal -he voted for it at least once. The parliament rejects a deal. The EU says there is no other deal. If you're a democrat like Boris, revoke isn't an option, a second vote isn't an option. How is he to blame if there is no deal ?

He voted against it twice, and for it once, so it is hard to conclude he wants a deal.   This is particularly true after he has been announcing that the deal is dead.   He just seems to want eh

He deservedly gets more blame than most, but there are plenty in parliament to blame. 
 
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« Reply #19484 on: August 06, 2019, 06:02:15 PM »

Steady on! Let’s be careful cos if we can’t blame Boris for No Deal and no baby medicine we are in a real blame game quandary. How will Remain cope with this turn of events.

In what world do we not blame Boris? He is more obviously to blame now than at any stage. Particularly while he has no solution for the border, he can shoulder a very healthy portion of the blame.

I do think there’s some merit in the new PM/newly elected European Parliament line of necessity for new negotiations but the balance of actual power won’t have changed.

Tell me how this works - Boris wants a deal -he voted for it at least once. The parliament rejects a deal. The EU says there is no other deal. If you're a democrat like Boris, revoke isn't an option, a second vote isn't an option. How is he to blame if there is no deal ?

He voted against it twice, and for it once, so it is hard to conclude he wants a deal.   This is particularly true after he has been announcing that the deal is dead.   He just seems to want eh

He deservedly gets more blame than most, but there are plenty in parliament to blame. 
 


At least now we’re blaming parliament instead of the racist thicko Leave voters.

I still hold Cameron responsible for it all.
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