The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[TightEnd]

Corbyn could have been the nation’s saviour. But he’s just too tribal says Simon Jenkins

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/19/jeremy-corbyn-nation-saviour-speech-labour-no-deal

[Woodsey]

Corbyn is hilarious, his self awareness is so bad it’s unreal....

[TightEnd]

NHS bosses confirm Johnson’s ‘new cash’ was indeed all spin:

‘The letter, from NHSE/I chief financial officer Julian Kelly, confirmed that £1bn of the additional spending in 2019-20 would be met through “trust’s own income and reserves’

https://www.hsj.co.uk/finance-and-efficiency/confirmed-nhs-cash-reserves-will-fund-pms-capital-spending-promise/7025774.article

[engy]

(It's like one of those school maths problems with water running into the bath and pouring out again at various rates).

from a forthcoming book

Seen this happen when I worked in haulage at cairnryan and Lochryan ports when management had p issed the staff off and paperwork checks and unit and trailer checks started to be done a little bit more thouroughly. The queues would be 5 or six miles back in no time. And these are small ports compared to Dover

[TightEnd]

Average across all polls since Johnson became PM

Conservatives 30%
Labour 25%
Lib Dem 18.5%
Brexit Party 14%
Green 6%
SNP 4%
Plaid 1%

treat with caution!

that does translate to

Cons largest party but short of majority
Lib Dems Ashdown '97 seat numbers
Lab Foot '83/Kinnock '87 territory

[TightEnd]

Response to Boris


Donald Tusk
@eucopresident

The backstop is an insurance to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland unless and until an alternative is found. Those against the backstop and not proposing realistic alternatives in fact support reestablishing a border. Even if they do not admit it.

[MANTIS01]

Response to Boris


Donald Tusk
@eucopresident

The backstop is an insurance to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland unless and until an alternative is found. Those against the backstop and not proposing realistic alternatives in fact support reestablishing a border. Even if they do not admit it.

Top 3 reasons why Boris would support a hard border?

In fact just one reason will do..

[TightEnd]

Response to Boris


Donald Tusk
@eucopresident

The backstop is an insurance to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland unless and until an alternative is found. Those against the backstop and not proposing realistic alternatives in fact support reestablishing a border. Even if they do not admit it.

Top 3 reasons why Boris would support a hard border?

In fact just one reason will do..

Boris is suggesting they will not impose one, without a backstop. "You can trust me, technology's coming, alternative arrangements". How are the EU and Ireland going to trust him exactly?

Not imposing one is an impossibility for the EU as it means backdoor access to the single market.

Hence the request for a firm alternative (clue there isn't one) rather than "we won't do it"

The backstop will become seen as an extremely clever piece of work that was extremely elegant. To be seen as that might take a number of years though. One for 2050 A level politics papers.

[TightEnd]

I really liked this analysis (David Henig, co-founder UK trade forum)

1  the current Government can't put forward a formal offer to the EU - because there is no deal acceptable to the Brexit Party. So unless you take them on, you're stuck. If they can't poach brexit party votes then they won't be in with a shot at Government when Johnson calls his GE. And he really really wants to win that election, so he can't take them on.

2 The Conservative Party can't be the party of no-deal, ever, as that takes away a chunk of the party (business, home counties) and can't be the party of deal as that takes away a chunk of the party (anti-EU, sovereigntist).

We're now over 3 years watching this movie...

[TightEnd]

David Baddiel

"Brexit is like ante-natal classes, where you focus entirely on the birth of your child and not at all on the demands of living with them for the next 18 years"

Here's James Kirkup in The Times.

[aaron1867]

Your bias in this thread Tighty is ridic. If you’re not posting anti-Brexit stuff, you’re posting about MP’s (Boris & co) who are pushing no deal Brexit.

Got to have some sort of attempt at balance surely

[TightEnd]

Sigh

I post a wide variety of stuff, from a range of sources, to help our understanding of the issues and the path of Brexit and UK politics as it moves along in a very complicated situation

Everyone knows my personal views.

Of course everyone has their own echo chamber in what they read, who they follow and who they speak to but i deliberately follow some who disagree with my view and if i see relevant stuff i put it up too. I have put up a number of links recently to that effect. It does remain a fact though that the vast majority of commentary is anti-no deal, the mix of commentary between leave and revoke is more balanced (respect democracy being the view of a number of those who voted remain including myself, for the most part. I have repeated said i would have voted for the WA to be out by now )

Other people have taken to posting a few more links and sources of their own which i welcome

I don't see a problem with any of this.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Your bias in this thread Tighty is ridic. If you’re not posting anti-Brexit stuff, you’re posting about MP’s (Boris & co) who are pushing no deal Brexit.

Got to have some sort of attempt at balance surely

If you disagree with the content he’s quoting, feel free to find sources that counter it.  Good luck finding it.

[TightEnd]

EU response to Boris

1. EU want a plan, not a vision: that means workable alternatives, not commitments; (clue there aren't any)
2. Believe solution lies in future trade discussions, not by re-opening WA;
3. Key question now: will both sides move enough to find new compromise?

[TightEnd]

No 10 not backing down. in response to that