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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2181097 times)
kukushkin88
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« Reply #22305 on: December 02, 2019, 01:01:47 PM »


I thought this was a measured and reasonable response:

https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/opinion-jennie-formby-chief-rabbi-can-criticise-but-heres-why-hes-wrong/
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« Reply #22306 on: December 02, 2019, 01:07:35 PM »

This Tory social/digital media team really are a bunch of shithouses aren't they?! Never Trust A Tory!

Both sides are at fault and have produced inaccurate takes on this, but Johnson and "Johnson" rightly get the most criticism.

Those with long memories will remember Tony Blair's Labour trying to detain people without trial for some very long periods, and his intentions to throw away the key on potential/actual terrorists.  So it is pretty inaccurate to describe Labour as soft on terrorists in the past.

For those with longer memories, London used to be the head office of numerous terrorist groups, and they used to go about their business without much hinderence.  I remember watching Jon Romson following round a Jihadi, and we all laughed a bit at the incompetence of the home grown "terrorists".  I think both sides didn't think there was a serious issue back then.



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nirvana
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« Reply #22307 on: December 02, 2019, 03:10:35 PM »

This Tory social/digital media team really are a bunch of shithouses aren't they?! Never Trust A Tory!


The majority of politicians are shithouses, never trust any of them would be a more accurate mantra IMO.


For all his shortcomings, this isn’t a criticism that can be fairly levelled at Corbyn. What is it that you don’t trust about Corbyn?

Quite a bit tbf
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Pokerpops
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« Reply #22308 on: December 02, 2019, 04:02:36 PM »

This Tory social/digital media team really are a bunch of shithouses aren't they?! Never Trust A Tory!


The majority of politicians are shithouses, never trust any of them would be a more accurate mantra IMO.


For all his shortcomings, this isn’t a criticism that can be fairly levelled at Corbyn. What is it that you don’t trust about Corbyn?

Quite a bit tbf

Where to start?
“I was there but not involved in the wreath laying” might make the list.

Or here? https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/23/corbyn-criticised-after-backing-artist-behind-antisemitic-mural

Mostly though it’s his devotion to the flawed concept of state managed industry that really bothers me.
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #22309 on: December 02, 2019, 04:27:24 PM »

This Tory social/digital media team really are a bunch of shithouses aren't they?! Never Trust A Tory!


The majority of politicians are shithouses, never trust any of them would be a more accurate mantra IMO.


For all his shortcomings, this isn’t a criticism that can be fairly levelled at Corbyn. What is it that you don’t trust about Corbyn?

Quite a bit tbf

Where to start?
“I was there but not involved in the wreath laying” might make the list.

Or here? https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/23/corbyn-criticised-after-backing-artist-behind-antisemitic-mural

Mostly though it’s his devotion to the flawed concept of state managed industry that really bothers me.

Seems quite exhaustive on the wreath, as always we can apply a bias filter and focus only on what’s in quotes.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-jeremy-corbyn-and-the-wreath-row

Second one, he acknowledges his misjudgement and as immediately as possible, corrects his position.

Third one has nothing to do with his honesty/integrity and plenty of excellent judges think his ideas are sound. He is proposing smaller public investment than France, levels similar to those in Germany.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/general-election-labour-economy-spending-corbyn-boris-johnson-a9218041.html%3famp
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aaron1867
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« Reply #22310 on: December 02, 2019, 04:56:21 PM »

Westminster Voting Intention:

CON: 42% (+1)
LAB: 35% (+1)
LDM: 13% (=)
BXP: 3% (-1)

Labour up again
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« Reply #22311 on: December 02, 2019, 06:27:42 PM »

Westminster Voting Intention:

CON: 42% (+1)
LAB: 35% (+1)
LDM: 13% (=)
BXP: 3% (-1)

Labour up again

Tories up again as well.   Just to keep it balanced.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 06:29:32 PM by arbboy » Logged
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« Reply #22312 on: December 02, 2019, 08:06:41 PM »

This Tory social/digital media team really are a bunch of shithouses aren't they?! Never Trust A Tory!


The majority of politicians are shithouses, never trust any of them would be a more accurate mantra IMO.


For all his shortcomings, this isn’t a criticism that can be fairly levelled at Corbyn. What is it that you don’t trust about Corbyn?

I lost trust for him when he fabricated the 'no seats available on Virgin trains' story. If he's prepared to lie transparently about an insignificant issue such as that, what won't he lie about?
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #22313 on: December 02, 2019, 09:03:48 PM »

This Tory social/digital media team really are a bunch of shithouses aren't they?! Never Trust A Tory!


The majority of politicians are shithouses, never trust any of them would be a more accurate mantra IMO.


For all his shortcomings, this isn’t a criticism that can be fairly levelled at Corbyn. What is it that you don’t trust about Corbyn?

I lost trust for him when he fabricated the 'no seats available on Virgin trains' story. If he's prepared to lie transparently about an insignificant issue such as that, what won't he lie about?

You will have read about ‘traingate’ in the right wing media, the reality is almost always very different, there’s cctv footage.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/virgin-release-traingate-footage-proves-corbyn-told-truth-traingate/23/08/amp/
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« Reply #22314 on: December 02, 2019, 11:02:28 PM »

This Tory social/digital media team really are a bunch of shithouses aren't they?! Never Trust A Tory!


The majority of politicians are shithouses, never trust any of them would be a more accurate mantra IMO.


For all his shortcomings, this isn’t a criticism that can be fairly levelled at Corbyn. What is it that you don’t trust about Corbyn?

I lost trust for him when he fabricated the 'no seats available on Virgin trains' story. If he's prepared to lie transparently about an insignificant issue such as that, what won't he lie about?

You will have read about ‘traingate’ in the right wing media, the reality is almost always very different, there’s cctv footage.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/virgin-release-traingate-footage-proves-corbyn-told-truth-traingate/23/08/amp/


I stand corrected. I only read The Times, and nothing online other than what I click links for - as I did with your link.
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« Reply #22315 on: December 03, 2019, 02:07:33 AM »

This Tory social/digital media team really are a bunch of shithouses aren't they?! Never Trust A Tory!


The majority of politicians are shithouses, never trust any of them would be a more accurate mantra IMO.


For all his shortcomings, this isn’t a criticism that can be fairly levelled at Corbyn. What is it that you don’t trust about Corbyn?

I lost trust for him when he fabricated the 'no seats available on Virgin trains' story. If he's prepared to lie transparently about an insignificant issue such as that, what won't he lie about?

You will have read about ‘traingate’ in the right wing media, the reality is almost always very different, there’s cctv footage.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/virgin-release-traingate-footage-proves-corbyn-told-truth-traingate/23/08/amp/


I stand corrected. I only read The Times, and nothing online other than what I click links for - as I did with your link.

".....sat on the floor.......sat on the floor". English language is clearly not covered in journalism courses.
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« Reply #22316 on: December 03, 2019, 07:45:26 AM »

This Tory social/digital media team really are a bunch of shithouses aren't they?! Never Trust A Tory!


The majority of politicians are shithouses, never trust any of them would be a more accurate mantra IMO.


For all his shortcomings, this isn’t a criticism that can be fairly levelled at Corbyn. What is it that you don’t trust about Corbyn?

Quite a bit tbf

Where to start?
“I was there but not involved in the wreath laying” might make the list.

Or here? https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/23/corbyn-criticised-after-backing-artist-behind-antisemitic-mural

Mostly though it’s his devotion to the flawed concept of state managed industry that really bothers me.

Seems quite exhaustive on the wreath, as always we can apply a bias filter and focus only on what’s in quotes.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-jeremy-corbyn-and-the-wreath-row

Second one, he acknowledges his misjudgement and as immediately as possible, corrects his position.

Third one has nothing to do with his honesty/integrity and plenty of excellent judges think his ideas are sound. He is proposing smaller public investment than France, levels similar to those in Germany.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/general-election-labour-economy-spending-corbyn-boris-johnson-a9218041.html%3famp

Hmmmm. The fact check verdict is pretty vague, but I’ll give you that and the mural one with slight reservations.

But letters from a bunch of economists don’t impress me much. History tells us that state control leads to wastefulness and inefficiencies. This is particularly true in periods when the unions have been allowed to act with impunity.


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« Reply #22317 on: December 03, 2019, 09:49:09 AM »

This Tory social/digital media team really are a bunch of shithouses aren't they?! Never Trust A Tory!


The majority of politicians are shithouses, never trust any of them would be a more accurate mantra IMO.


For all his shortcomings, this isn’t a criticism that can be fairly levelled at Corbyn. What is it that you don’t trust about Corbyn?

I lost trust for him when he fabricated the 'no seats available on Virgin trains' story. If he's prepared to lie transparently about an insignificant issue such as that, what won't he lie about?

You will have read about ‘traingate’ in the right wing media, the reality is almost always very different, there’s cctv footage.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/virgin-release-traingate-footage-proves-corbyn-told-truth-traingate/23/08/amp/


I stand corrected. I only read The Times, and nothing online other than what I click links for - as I did with your link.

I am not sure it is the whole truth.  Given it isn't the whole footage either, then it isn't really proof one way or the other.  I travel into and out of London pretty frequently both at weekends and in the rush hour.  I don't think I'd ever try and get my family group on a train out of London at the last minute and expect to get a bunch of seats together, even at the weekend.  We very much stand in front of the boards at kings cross waiting for the train to arrive and get to the platform when it arrives in the station.  Looking at the time stamps, Corbyn and his team have clearly got there not long before the train left. 

I would add that I have been on plenty of overcrowded trains out of London, including plenty where passengers were forced to stand (nearly every rush hour train?), and plenty where people were stood or sat on the floor when seats were available.  Observing people sitting on the floor really isn't proof there are no seats on the train.  I was surprised they picked this train as I have seen loads of trains much more packed than this one was.

I would just add that the "independent" filmakers time line was full of Momentum stuff at the time, so he isn't really any more independent than Branson.  I think the original Corbyn video illustrates the reality of many train journeys, just not convinced it was the reality of this one.   I think there were likely to be some individual seats,  but none grouped together.

Finally, who would want a bunch of people running the railways who think optimum seat strat is to pay full whack and rock up at the last minute and not reserve the cheap seats in advance?  Though some people may think that their intention was never to find seats

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« Reply #22318 on: December 03, 2019, 11:21:34 AM »

this is a very interesting 7 minute watch, a focus group in a Labour Midlands seat.

https://www.channel4.com/news/focus-group-can-tories-win-over-people-who-voted-labour-and-leave

One thing that struck me, people think Con win majority, Brexit gets done, sunny uplands....its going to be a rocky year to get a trade deal in time otherwise its no deal end 2020..not mentioned/understood(?)
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« Reply #22319 on: December 03, 2019, 11:51:05 AM »

this is a very interesting 7 minute watch, a focus group in a Labour Midlands seat.

https://www.channel4.com/news/focus-group-can-tories-win-over-people-who-voted-labour-and-leave

One thing that struck me, people think Con win majority, Brexit gets done, sunny uplands....its going to be a rocky year to get a trade deal in time otherwise its no deal end 2020..not mentioned/understood(?)


6 months on......" trade talks with US ongoing, Boris has an affair"  Cheesy

All 8 of them voted Corbyn/Labour last time.....none this time. The main reason : Corbyn. They don't complete trust Boris but in a straight choice, it seems to only one winner for them.

 As Tighty says the problematic trade talk deadlines/no deal end of 2020 is not on their radar. Of course the Tories need to keep it that way for another 10 days.

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