Syria, Migrants and Online Comments

[iangascoigne]

Anyone got any data on how many refugees have been taken in by Saudi Arabia,United Arab Emiratesand some of the other wealthy petro chemical Muslim countries or is that all a little bit to inflammatory to ask. This is a really complex global issue and it's far to easy to slip into rhetoric. Countries without borders are no longer countries. Turkey and Greec are shouldering to much of the burden and yes the UK could do more. However there are some very wealthy countries in the vicinity who are spending their wealth building shopping malls and Skyscrapers,airlines and football clubs.

[rfgqqabc]

I don't want to debate about how servicemen are treated post service, especially with someone who is not objective about the whole thing. I would like to make some crude comparisons though.

A policeman, a serviceman, an NHS worker, an MP, a binman and a traffic warden.

These groups all serve the public intrest, they do so going in knowing what is likely to be asked of them, what the positives and negatives are, they are all paid for there service. Why is one group suddenly more deserving after the cease their employment?

Compare this with someone who has had their entire life destroyed, the very society they have spent their whole lives in no longer exists, they have fled from probable death in most cases and all they want is some help to get started and then to join in with our society and make new lives, get jobs, raise childen, pay taxes.

If there is only enough money for one of these people then I am choosing the refugee over the former public servant.

Ptsd and mental illness would be my reasoning. I'm aware it affects more than just people from the military (well I imagine police officers/fireman/emergency response can suffer from it and I've read some awful stories about what emergency service operators have heard).

An mp would earn more and have much better job prospects too.

It's an awful situation and the UK just aren't pulling the weight we should. Find a way to get some more of ax off the corporations instead of letting them hand it off to shareholders. Maybe not subsidise rail companies who then go on to hand out dividends to shareholders.

[Royal Flush]

Anyone got any data on how many refugees have been taken in by Saudi Arabia,United Arab Emiratesand some of the other wealthy petro chemical Muslim countries or is that all a little bit to inflammatory to ask. This is a really complex global issue and it's far to easy to slip into rhetoric. Countries without borders are no longer countries. Turkey and Greec are shouldering to much of the burden and yes the UK could do more. However there are some very wealthy countries in the vicinity who are spending their wealth building shopping malls and Skyscrapers,airlines and football clubs.

Yes the UAE can and should do more, so should we, pointing fingers at even worse offenders is like the kid who gets caught stealing 1 biscuit and points out little Johnny stole 2.

[Royal Flush]

I don't want to debate about how servicemen are treated post service, especially with someone who is not objective about the whole thing. I would like to make some crude comparisons though.

A policeman, a serviceman, an NHS worker, an MP, a binman and a traffic warden.

These groups all serve the public intrest, they do so going in knowing what is likely to be asked of them, what the positives and negatives are, they are all paid for there service. Why is one group suddenly more deserving after the cease their employment?

Compare this with someone who has had their entire life destroyed, the very society they have spent their whole lives in no longer exists, they have fled from probable death in most cases and all they want is some help to get started and then to join in with our society and make new lives, get jobs, raise childen, pay taxes.

If there is only enough money for one of these people then I am choosing the refugee over the former public servant.

Ptsd and mental illness would be my reasoning. I'm aware it affects more than just people from the military (well I imagine police officers/fireman/emergency response can suffer from it and I've read some awful stories about what emergency service operators have heard).

An mp would earn more and have much better job prospects too.

It's an awful situation and the UK just aren't pulling the weight we should. Find a way to get some more of ax off the corporations instead of letting them hand it off to shareholders. Maybe not subsidise rail companies who then go on to hand out dividends to shareholders.

Ok so MP is at bottom of the list, I would probably agree with that. I would imagine though a serviceman would have some money saved up at the end of his/her service, I believe they often receive housing/housing help and leave the military with varied skill sets which enable them to seek skilled employment post service. Pretty sure traffic wardens don't get that so for the moment I'm going refugee>traffic warden>service personnel>MP's

[kinboshi]

The UAE and Saudi Arabia should definitely be doing more. But they're hardly bastions of human rights.

Looks like the UK will be taking 'some'  more, but hardly seems enough. That article does explain where the 200 number comes from.

http://gu.com/p/4c4hj

[bookiebasher]

It's not political , it's not economics , it's not pointing fingers and blaming people.

It's about humanity.

Agree with Tighty . Never ever thought I would say it after upsetting the apple cart in Iraq
but action is needed NOW. In what form I would not have a clue but world leaders need to
act rather than talk.

Whatever plan of action they are implementing at the minute , well , it's obviously not working.

If the pictures of the last few days hasn't brought home that message to people than it's a sad
reflection of modern times.

Churchill would have been up and at em , and I don't mean the dog.

[leethefish]

I don't want to debate about how servicemen are treated post service, especially with someone who is not objective about the whole thing. I would like to make some crude comparisons though.

A policeman, a serviceman, an NHS worker, an MP, a binman and a traffic warden.

These groups all serve the public intrest, they do so going in knowing what is likely to be asked of them, what the positives and negatives are, they are all paid for there service. Why is one group suddenly more deserving after the cease their employment?

Compare this with someone who has had their entire life destroyed, the very society they have spent their whole lives in no longer exists, they have fled from probable death in most cases and all they want is some help to get started and then to join in with our society and make new lives, get jobs, raise childen, pay taxes.

If there is only enough money for one of these people then I am choosing the refugee over the former public servant.

Ptsd and mental illness would be my reasoning. I'm aware it affects more than just people from the military (well I imagine police officers/fireman/emergency response can suffer from it and I've read some awful stories about what emergency service operators have heard).

An mp would earn more and have much better job prospects too.

It's an awful situation and the UK just aren't pulling the weight we should. Find a way to get some more of ax off the corporations instead of letting them hand it off to shareholders. Maybe not subsidise rail companies who then go on to hand out dividends to shareholders.

Ok so MP is at bottom of the list, I would probably agree with that. I would imagine though a serviceman would have some money saved up at the end of his/her service, I believe they often receive housing/housing help and leave the military with varied skill sets which enable them to seek skilled employment post service. Pretty sure traffic wardens don't get that so for the moment I'm going refugee>traffic warden>service personnel>MP's

Are you actually serious with this post ?

[rfgqqabc]

I don't want to debate about how servicemen are treated post service, especially with someone who is not objective about the whole thing. I would like to make some crude comparisons though.

A policeman, a serviceman, an NHS worker, an MP, a binman and a traffic warden.

These groups all serve the public intrest, they do so going in knowing what is likely to be asked of them, what the positives and negatives are, they are all paid for there service. Why is one group suddenly more deserving after the cease their employment?

Compare this with someone who has had their entire life destroyed, the very society they have spent their whole lives in no longer exists, they have fled from probable death in most cases and all they want is some help to get started and then to join in with our society and make new lives, get jobs, raise childen, pay taxes.

If there is only enough money for one of these people then I am choosing the refugee over the former public servant.

Ptsd and mental illness would be my reasoning. I'm aware it affects more than just people from the military (well I imagine police officers/fireman/emergency response can suffer from it and I've read some awful stories about what emergency service operators have heard).

An mp would earn more and have much better job prospects too.

It's an awful situation and the UK just aren't pulling the weight we should. Find a way to get some more of ax off the corporations instead of letting them hand it off to shareholders. Maybe not subsidise rail companies who then go on to hand out dividends to shareholders.

Ok so MP is at bottom of the list, I would probably agree with that. I would imagine though a serviceman would have some money saved up at the end of his/her service, I believe they often receive housing/housing help and leave the military with varied skill sets which enable them to seek skilled employment post service. Pretty sure traffic wardens don't get that so for the moment I'm going refugee>traffic warden>service personnel>MP's

Yes they get some help for housing but often it isn't enough and doesn't really compensate for the mother of the household struggling to find work as she may not speak the language like in Germany. Some servicemen do get extra skills and the military do provide some £ toward retraining and these sorts of things but your posts are very narrow minded. An engineer might have skills that translate to civilian life well but the bog standard infantryman won't.

I'm not sure why you would expect servicemen to have the ability to save money when the average family in the UK can't. I don't think a family would receive any sort of special benefit or allowancd for housing if they weren't based abroad. Your reasoning for savings is nonsense and applies equally to traffic wardens as much as it dies servicemen and completely fails to meet my point regarding mental health and those sorts of issues servicemen face.

[Royal Flush]

I don't want to debate about how servicemen are treated post service, especially with someone who is not objective about the whole thing. I would like to make some crude comparisons though.

A policeman, a serviceman, an NHS worker, an MP, a binman and a traffic warden.

These groups all serve the public intrest, they do so going in knowing what is likely to be asked of them, what the positives and negatives are, they are all paid for there service. Why is one group suddenly more deserving after the cease their employment?

Compare this with someone who has had their entire life destroyed, the very society they have spent their whole lives in no longer exists, they have fled from probable death in most cases and all they want is some help to get started and then to join in with our society and make new lives, get jobs, raise childen, pay taxes.

If there is only enough money for one of these people then I am choosing the refugee over the former public servant.

Ptsd and mental illness would be my reasoning. I'm aware it affects more than just people from the military (well I imagine police officers/fireman/emergency response can suffer from it and I've read some awful stories about what emergency service operators have heard).

An mp would earn more and have much better job prospects too.

It's an awful situation and the UK just aren't pulling the weight we should. Find a way to get some more of ax off the corporations instead of letting them hand it off to shareholders. Maybe not subsidise rail companies who then go on to hand out dividends to shareholders.

Ok so MP is at bottom of the list, I would probably agree with that. I would imagine though a serviceman would have some money saved up at the end of his/her service, I believe they often receive housing/housing help and leave the military with varied skill sets which enable them to seek skilled employment post service. Pretty sure traffic wardens don't get that so for the moment I'm going refugee>traffic warden>service personnel>MP's

Are you actually serious with this post ?

I remember when I was close to serving the recruiters were using the fact that I would come out of service with a strong set of skills that would see me assimilate into civilian life and into a decent job, along with some money in the bank. Those weren't the motivation forces for me to join the armed services but it was certainly good to know the years spent in service wouldn't be detrimental to my advancement in a civilian career.

Our government has a duty of care to all homeless citizens, I don't see why a homeless man who was in the armed forces is more important to one who used to empty our bins.

[Royal Flush]

I don't want to debate about how servicemen are treated post service, especially with someone who is not objective about the whole thing. I would like to make some crude comparisons though.

A policeman, a serviceman, an NHS worker, an MP, a binman and a traffic warden.

These groups all serve the public intrest, they do so going in knowing what is likely to be asked of them, what the positives and negatives are, they are all paid for there service. Why is one group suddenly more deserving after the cease their employment?

Compare this with someone who has had their entire life destroyed, the very society they have spent their whole lives in no longer exists, they have fled from probable death in most cases and all they want is some help to get started and then to join in with our society and make new lives, get jobs, raise childen, pay taxes.

If there is only enough money for one of these people then I am choosing the refugee over the former public servant.

Ptsd and mental illness would be my reasoning. I'm aware it affects more than just people from the military (well I imagine police officers/fireman/emergency response can suffer from it and I've read some awful stories about what emergency service operators have heard).

An mp would earn more and have much better job prospects too.

It's an awful situation and the UK just aren't pulling the weight we should. Find a way to get some more of ax off the corporations instead of letting them hand it off to shareholders. Maybe not subsidise rail companies who then go on to hand out dividends to shareholders.

Ok so MP is at bottom of the list, I would probably agree with that. I would imagine though a serviceman would have some money saved up at the end of his/her service, I believe they often receive housing/housing help and leave the military with varied skill sets which enable them to seek skilled employment post service. Pretty sure traffic wardens don't get that so for the moment I'm going refugee>traffic warden>service personnel>MP's

Yes they get some help for housing but often it isn't enough and doesn't really compensate for the mother of the household struggling to find work as she may not speak the language like in Germany. Some servicemen do get extra skills and the military do provide some £ toward retraining and these sorts of things but your posts are very narrow minded. An engineer might have skills that translate to civilian life well but the bog standard infantryman won't.

I'm not sure why you would expect servicemen to have the ability to save money when the average family in the UK can't. I don't think a family would receive any sort of special benefit or allowancd for housing if they weren't based abroad. Your reasoning for savings is nonsense and applies equally to traffic wardens as much as it dies servicemen and completely fails to meet my point regarding mental health and those sorts of issues servicemen face.

You posted as I was writing, the basis of my comments about the financial situation were what i was told by recruiters, it might be that it is no longer the case or that was just what they said to try and get people to sign, I don't know either way and have no other knowledge on the subject.

[rfgqqabc]

I don't want to debate about how servicemen are treated post service, especially with someone who is not objective about the whole thing. I would like to make some crude comparisons though.

A policeman, a serviceman, an NHS worker, an MP, a binman and a traffic warden.

These groups all serve the public intrest, they do so going in knowing what is likely to be asked of them, what the positives and negatives are, they are all paid for there service. Why is one group suddenly more deserving after the cease their employment?

Compare this with someone who has had their entire life destroyed, the very society they have spent their whole lives in no longer exists, they have fled from probable death in most cases and all they want is some help to get started and then to join in with our society and make new lives, get jobs, raise childen, pay taxes.

If there is only enough money for one of these people then I am choosing the refugee over the former public servant.

Ptsd and mental illness would be my reasoning. I'm aware it affects more than just people from the military (well I imagine police officers/fireman/emergency response can suffer from it and I've read some awful stories about what emergency service operators have heard).

An mp would earn more and have much better job prospects too.

It's an awful situation and the UK just aren't pulling the weight we should. Find a way to get some more of ax off the corporations instead of letting them hand it off to shareholders. Maybe not subsidise rail companies who then go on to hand out dividends to shareholders.

Ok so MP is at bottom of the list, I would probably agree with that. I would imagine though a serviceman would have some money saved up at the end of his/her service, I believe they often receive housing/housing help and leave the military with varied skill sets which enable them to seek skilled employment post service. Pretty sure traffic wardens don't get that so for the moment I'm going refugee>traffic warden>service personnel>MP's

Yes they get some help for housing but often it isn't enough and doesn't really compensate for the mother of the household struggling to find work as she may not speak the language like in Germany. Some servicemen do get extra skills and the military do provide some £ toward retraining and these sorts of things but your posts are very narrow minded. An engineer might have skills that translate to civilian life well but the bog standard infantryman won't.

I'm not sure why you would expect servicemen to have the ability to save money when the average family in the UK can't. I don't think a family would receive any sort of special benefit or allowancd for housing if they weren't based abroad. Your reasoning for savings is nonsense and applies equally to traffic wardens as much as it dies servicemen and completely fails to meet my point regarding mental health and those sorts of issues servicemen face.

You posted as I was writing, the basis of my comments about the financial situation were what i was told by recruiters, it might be that it is no longer the case or that was just what they said to try and get people to sign, I don't know either way and have no other knowledge on the subject.

Ok makes sense. Hope I'm not too fiery had an emotional day.

[leethefish]

You are being utterly ridiculous royal flush!!
A private soldier protects this country that you live in for about 18k a year
A dustmen earns 25k a year
A soldier has to go to war see his mates maimed and killed
A dustmen might get a smelly bin if he's unlucky
A soldier has to deal with the things he sees and does for the rest of his life
A dustmen goes home and has a meal with his family

Of course he should be housed at yes the front of the que

[nirvana]

Leaving the forces is no different to any other walk of life in terms of job change. Some will be equipped with specialist marketable skills, some will have a good set of transferable soft skills and some will struggle. If you serve for 22 years and perhaps pick up a war pension then you will be relatively well looked after financially.

What is different compared to most walks of life is the impact the job may have on you. It's easy to agree with Lee that special consideration is merited for those that have had harrowing experiences - often leading to the mental health issues others have alluded to and a struggle to integrate into a non-institutionalised life.

The fact that we don't support our ex-servicemen, with issues, very well is obviously not a reason to hold back on our help with the refugees. I cannot begin to wrap my head around the concept of 'helping our own first' - I don't even know who 'our own' are.

I know a lot of this has been said but I think people are a little quick to dismiss Lee's perspective in quite such an offhand way. Ranking traffic wardens ahead of ex-servicemen is just a tad silly - make an equivalence case if you like but ahead .. gtfo Flushy

[teddybloat]

if we're giving houses out on the basis of low-income, the horrors people have seen, lengthy periods living in war-ravaged countries and lack of family life, then the calais migrants should be right at the front of that queue, innit.

[kinboshi]

You are being utterly ridiculous royal flush!!
A private soldier protects this country that you live in for about 18k a year
A dustmen earns 25k a year
A soldier has to go to war see his mates maimed and killed
A dustmen might get a smelly bin if he's unlucky
A soldier has to deal with the things he sees and does for the rest of his life
A dustmen goes home and has a meal with his family

Of course he should be housed at yes the front of the que

So would a nurse go in front or behind the ex-solider?  What about an ex-heart surgeon?  What if the soldier was foreign, or if the nurse was a daughter of an immigrant?

Of course, none of this matters.  Those with the greatest need should be looked after first.  Simples.

The idea that those with an urgent need are taking away aid from others who have a serious, but less urgent need, is nonsense.  The way it's often portrayed as "A v B", or "A or B", is not only dangerous and divisive, it's also a lie.