blonde poker forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 09:03:30 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
2272476 Posts in 66752 Topics by 16945 Members
Latest Member: Zula
* Home Help Arcade Search Calendar Guidelines Login Register
+  blonde poker forum
|-+  Community Forums
| |-+  The Lounge
| | |-+  Syria, Migrants and Online Comments
0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13 14 15 16 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Syria, Migrants and Online Comments  (Read 32363 times)
RickBFA
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2001


View Profile
« Reply #150 on: September 04, 2015, 05:46:09 PM »

but in recent times the ideal that we have some moral superiority over others is part of the problem.

I agree the actions of the Western World have probably helped escalate the problem of extremism etc. However, imo we DO have moral superiority over many parts of the world. I am talking about those countries that kill hundreds of thousands of their own people in ethnic cleansing, do not allow women to have educations, have public executions in football stadiums for women accused of adultery, and loads of other simply horrendous stuff. I am all for moral relativism, but I still believe that most western countries - whilst still being dodgy in many ways - are morally superior to many of these horrible regimes. I remember a while back it seemed to be the liberal left (of which I consider myself to be a part) who were the most ardent apologists for the 'cultural differences' of many Islamic states. Their argument was that we should not judge cultures that are different to ours - in other words if it is their culture to have, say, enforced female genital mutilation, then it would be intolerant of us to criticise them for that. Maybe it makes me intolerant - I don't think so! - but I just cannot get on board with this concept.

BTW, I see that a similar argument was being used a short time ago by right wingers in the USA about gay marriage (and other things). They were arguing that gay marriage supporters were guilty of intolerance because they were not taking into account the views of those who think it is against God's will. In other words, they are saying "you are intolerant for not tolerating my intolerance"! Scary that this is being accepted by some people as a valid argument.

Well said, these people aren't running away from Bush and Blair, they are running away from utter bastards who should be executed en masse.



They aren't running from Bush or Blair, but those two helped create the environment that let the extremists thrive. They left Iraq with no creditable plan within the context of their culture and effectively left a vacuum partly being filled by IS. Their actions helped the extremists and gave them a powerful PR/recruitment weapon.

We should have left Hussain in power - he was not a problem in 9/11 terms - Bush and Blair went on their mad crusade which was the worst foreign policy decision in 50 years.

Logged
RickBFA
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2001


View Profile
« Reply #151 on: September 04, 2015, 05:53:21 PM »

but in recent times the ideal that we have some moral superiority over others is part of the problem.

I agree the actions of the Western World have probably helped escalate the problem of extremism etc. However, imo we DO have moral superiority over many parts of the world. I am talking about those countries that kill hundreds of thousands of their own people in ethnic cleansing, do not allow women to have educations, have public executions in football stadiums for women accused of adultery, and loads of other simply horrendous stuff. I am all for moral relativism, but I still believe that most western countries - whilst still being dodgy in many ways - are morally superior to many of these horrible regimes. I remember a while back it seemed to be the liberal left (of which I consider myself to be a part) who were the most ardent apologists for the 'cultural differences' of many Islamic states. Their argument was that we should not judge cultures that are different to ours - in other words if it is their culture to have, say, enforced female genital mutilation, then it would be intolerant of us to criticise them for that. Maybe it makes me intolerant - I don't think so! - but I just cannot get on board with this concept.

BTW, I see that a similar argument was being used a short time ago by right wingers in the USA about gay marriage (and other things). They were arguing that gay marriage supporters were guilty of intolerance because they were not taking into account the views of those who think it is against God's will. In other words, they are saying "you are intolerant for not tolerating my intolerance"! Scary that this is being accepted by some people as a valid argument.

One quick point - in historical terms we have very little grounds to play the "our morals are better than yours" card. In fact when you look at the way we exploited other countries resources and people we are on a very sticky wicket.

It made me smile about a year ago when Prince Charles was having a pop at Putin over the Crimea. Putin basically said he wasn't taking any lessons from us with our colonial history. Putin had a point!!
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 05:55:06 PM by RickBFA » Logged
Woodsey
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 15846



View Profile
« Reply #152 on: September 04, 2015, 05:53:45 PM »

If you are setting yourself up in a group that is distinct from do-gooders, then what does that make you?

A do-badder? A do-nothinger?

As in my previous post I do do something unlike most of you keyboard warriors

This fucking silent majority bullshit annoys the living fuck out of me.

In going to quote from a YouTube video made by two German comedians responding to people making this kind of claim. Since the video is quite long, I'm going to paraphrase:

'Dear Misters 'I'm not a racist but-', professor 'hobby provocateur' and others,

....
Previously people were punks if they wanted to be contrarian, now you're a Patriot. You think you're the silent majority, saying what everyone is thinking, you call a spade a spade and stick your finger in the wound and you won't be dictated to by anyone. Call your selfs nationalists, Patriots, the silent majority, even William Wallace himself: you are egregious morons and you are not the majority. This country and this society will not tolerate your bullshit.

But no worries, we are under no illusions that you'll change your option, but at some point you'll pack your flags away, stop marching, come to your senses and be ashamed of your actions this summer for the rest of your lives; or end up on the Jeremy Kyle show.

Refugees welcome.'

This rallying against 'lefties' and 'do gooders' (whatever the fuck that means...) does nothing but detract from the issue and make the speaker feel important.

Well fuck that. Stop fucking chirping and start solving this problem like the rest of us. This problem will not be solved without everyone putting all their resources into it. So shut up and crack the fuck on. Or get your self to Jeremy Kyle.

You really need to start speaking to people on here as you would in real life. I highly doubt you would say some of the stuff you write here to somebodies face, you would have a huge problem with some people if you did....
Logged
Doobs
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16570


View Profile
« Reply #153 on: September 04, 2015, 06:00:52 PM »

but in recent times the ideal that we have some moral superiority over others is part of the problem.

I agree the actions of the Western World have probably helped escalate the problem of extremism etc. However, imo we DO have moral superiority over many parts of the world. I am talking about those countries that kill hundreds of thousands of their own people in ethnic cleansing, do not allow women to have educations, have public executions in football stadiums for women accused of adultery, and loads of other simply horrendous stuff. I am all for moral relativism, but I still believe that most western countries - whilst still being dodgy in many ways - are morally superior to many of these horrible regimes. I remember a while back it seemed to be the liberal left (of which I consider myself to be a part) who were the most ardent apologists for the 'cultural differences' of many Islamic states. Their argument was that we should not judge cultures that are different to ours - in other words if it is their culture to have, say, enforced female genital mutilation, then it would be intolerant of us to criticise them for that. Maybe it makes me intolerant - I don't think so! - but I just cannot get on board with this concept.

BTW, I see that a similar argument was being used a short time ago by right wingers in the USA about gay marriage (and other things). They were arguing that gay marriage supporters were guilty of intolerance because they were not taking into account the views of those who think it is against God's will. In other words, they are saying "you are intolerant for not tolerating my intolerance"! Scary that this is being accepted by some people as a valid argument.

Well said, these people aren't running away from Bush and Blair, they are running away from utter bastards who should be executed en masse.



They aren't running from Bush or Blair, but those two helped create the environment that let the extremists thrive. They left Iraq with no creditable plan within the context of their culture and effectively left a vacuum partly being filled by IS. Their actions helped the extremists and gave them a powerful PR/recruitment weapon.

We should have left Hussain in power - he was not a problem in 9/11 terms - Bush and Blair went on their mad crusade which was the worst foreign policy decision in 50 years.



These bastards didn't start up in Iraq or Libya where we intervened, but in Syria where we didn't.  I absolutely didn't agree with the Iraq war, but we shouldn't blame ourselves for these all the problems in the middle East.  Iran and Iraq were fighting well before we intervened as were Iraq and Kuwait.  The Taliban were behaving like absolute turds before bin laden moved there and well before 9/11 and the war in afganistan.  What would hace happened if we hadn't intervened anywhere is an unknown.
Logged

Most of the bets placed so far seem more like hopeful punts rather than value spots
leethefish
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4701


winners never quit quitters never win


View Profile
« Reply #154 on: September 04, 2015, 06:01:05 PM »

If you are setting yourself up in a group that is distinct from do-gooders, then what does that make you?

A do-badder? A do-nothinger?

As in my previous post I do do something unlike most of you keyboard warriors

This fucking silent majority bullshit annoys the living fuck out of me.

In going to quote from a YouTube video made by two German comedians responding to people making this kind of claim. Since the video is quite long, I'm going to paraphrase:

'Dear Misters 'I'm not a racist but-', professor 'hobby provocateur' and others,

....
Previously people were punks if they wanted to be contrarian, now you're a Patriot. You think you're the silent majority, saying what everyone is thinking, you call a spade a spade and stick your finger in the wound and you won't be dictated to by anyone. Call your selfs nationalists, Patriots, the silent majority, even William Wallace himself: you are egregious morons and you are not the majority. This country and this society will not tolerate your bullshit.

But no worries, we are under no illusions that you'll change your option, but at some point you'll pack your flags away, stop marching, come to your senses and be ashamed of your actions this summer for the rest of your lives; or end up on the Jeremy Kyle show.

Refugees welcome.'

This rallying against 'lefties' and 'do gooders' (whatever the fuck that means...) does nothing but detract from the issue and make the speaker feel important.

Well fuck that. Stop fucking chirping and start solving this problem like the rest of us. This problem will not be solved without everyone putting all their resources into it. So shut up and crack the fuck on. Or get your self to Jeremy Kyle.


Wow !!!
Why would you type this when you clearly wouldn't say that shit to my face !

Whatever has been said for or against the discussion we've had I think you've very much just crossed that line !

How dare you say these things !

i am being very controlled with this post as I feel it will do nothing to the debate by retaliating

And feel I might say a little too much.




Logged

http://www.ljwcarpenter.co.uk       

http://alzheimers.org.uk/

www.ageuk.org.uk/


   If you can meet with triumph and disaster And treat those two impostors just the same......yours is the Earth and everything that's in it...And - which is more --you'll be a Man, my son.
RED-DOG
International Lover World Wide Playboy
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 46911



View Profile WWW
« Reply #155 on: September 04, 2015, 11:31:25 PM »

 Click to see full-size image.
Logged

The older I get, the better I was.
JohnCharver
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1249


View Profile
« Reply #156 on: September 05, 2015, 12:41:27 AM »

Ridiculous how easily the media can change public perspective; scary actually..


Logged
kinboshi
ROMANES EUNT DOMUS
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 44302


We go again.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #157 on: September 05, 2015, 08:56:04 AM »

Had someone telling me "we've all wanted immigrants out of our country for ages, what's suddenly changed?".

He then continued to say that his opinions weren't informed by the tabloid press.
Logged

'The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.'
RED-DOG
International Lover World Wide Playboy
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 46911



View Profile WWW
« Reply #158 on: September 05, 2015, 09:27:54 AM »

Kudos Austria.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34161109
Logged

The older I get, the better I was.
leethefish
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4701


winners never quit quitters never win


View Profile
« Reply #159 on: September 07, 2015, 11:08:08 PM »

 Click to see full-size image.
Logged

http://www.ljwcarpenter.co.uk       

http://alzheimers.org.uk/

www.ageuk.org.uk/


   If you can meet with triumph and disaster And treat those two impostors just the same......yours is the Earth and everything that's in it...And - which is more --you'll be a Man, my son.
TightEnd
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: I am a geek!!



View Profile
« Reply #160 on: September 07, 2015, 11:16:25 PM »

do you think thats true Lee?

these people fleeing for their lives are thinking about benefits?
Logged

My eyes are open wide
By the way,I made it through the day
I watch the world outside
By the way, I'm leaving out today
leethefish
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4701


winners never quit quitters never win


View Profile
« Reply #161 on: September 07, 2015, 11:19:06 PM »

How many countries are they traviling thru which are safe ?
Logged

http://www.ljwcarpenter.co.uk       

http://alzheimers.org.uk/

www.ageuk.org.uk/


   If you can meet with triumph and disaster And treat those two impostors just the same......yours is the Earth and everything that's in it...And - which is more --you'll be a Man, my son.
TightEnd
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: I am a geek!!



View Profile
« Reply #162 on: September 07, 2015, 11:23:21 PM »

How many countries are they traviling thru which are safe ?


read this, then the full article

"There is a widely held belief that asylum seekers have detailed knowledge of policies in destination countries – for example, recognition rates, opportunities for employment and access to welfare benefits – as that they make rational and informed choices about where to claim asylum based on this knowledge. These assumptions are reflected in the nature of political debates around asylum over the past decade, in public attitudes towards asylum seekers and refugees, and in the tone and content of media headlines. The desire of refugees living in makeshift camps around Calais in the hope that they can find a way to enter the UK is frequently cited as ‘evidence’ of this.

Research undertaken for the Refugee Council and published in January 2010 challenges these assumptions. Based on in-depth interviews with refugees and asylum seekers, a number of whom arrived as separated children, the research investigates the decisions made by asylum seekers who come to the UK and explores the extent to which these decisions are a reflection of chance or choice. It builds upon the growing, but as yet still limited, body of evidence about the ‘choices’ that individuals are (or are not) able to exert over the country in which they will seek asylum, and the factors that might contribute to the decision making process."

http://www.swansea.ac.uk/international/global-research/whyasylumseekerscometotheuk/

lets see if we can educate you to get rid of this xenophobia
Logged

My eyes are open wide
By the way,I made it through the day
I watch the world outside
By the way, I'm leaving out today
TightEnd
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: I am a geek!!



View Profile
« Reply #163 on: September 07, 2015, 11:24:41 PM »

specifically

"The decision to come to the UK
Less than a third of the research participants specifically wanted to come to the UK. For those that did, the presence of family and friends and a belief that their human rights would be respected were the most important factors underlying that decision. For some the decision to come to the UK was opportunistic and motivated by the fact that it was possible to obtain travel documents, or make use of an existing visa. Respondents from Zimbabwe appear more consciously to have decided to come to the UK compared with other nationalities.

Just over two-thirds of respondents did not choose to come to the UK. This includes all but one of those who arrived as separated children. In very many cases respondents described having little or no knowledge of the UK. Some were aware of the existence of Europe but had no knowledge about the differences between individual countries (or even that individual countries existed).

The single most important reason why these asylum seekers had ended up in the UK was because a decision to bring them here had been made by others, usually by an agent. Most only became aware that they were going to the UK after leaving their country of origin. Some, including many of those who arrived as children, only found out that they were in the UK after their arrival. Some people wanted to go to countries other than the UK but were unable to do so. This reflects the lack of choice that many asylum seekers have over the destination country."
Logged

My eyes are open wide
By the way,I made it through the day
I watch the world outside
By the way, I'm leaving out today
RED-DOG
International Lover World Wide Playboy
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 46911



View Profile WWW
« Reply #164 on: September 07, 2015, 11:32:04 PM »

Warning. The next post contains a graphic image.


Logged

The older I get, the better I was.
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13 14 15 16 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.285 seconds with 21 queries.