Noisy Neighbours - the Man City thread

[Archer]

My City supporting friend (yes, I have a friend) messaged me after yesterday’s game to say that he now believes football is corrupt and that the VAR decisions in yesterday’s game and the CL semi-final were evidence of this.

Is this a widely held belief amongst City fans?

Of course it is corrupt.

Last year in the Champions League L16 away at Schalke - we went 1-0 down following a penalty award against Otamendi when he had literally moved his arm out of the way to a straight line and touching his body. All BT pundits said no penalty and that was after allowing for the differing UEFA hardline approach to handballs. The ref awarded the penalty on the instruction of VAR but couldn't review it because the pitchside TV had broken. Corrupt.

QF against Spurs last year.  Llorente handball for a similar offence to Laporte's yesterday. Ref looked at the pitchside TV but VAR didn't show the images that proved the ball had hit his hand before. Goal allowed. Corrupt.

Yesterday, VAR only shows 1 angle of the incident. Different supporters footage from the opposite side clearly  shows the ball hits Laporte's shoulder and falls away without touching his arm/hand. Goal disallowed. Corrupt.


Is it just a coincidence that those 3 have all had technical failings? I doubt it.

Post of the year contender.

Especially as you're usually the sensible one.

Just twisting information to suit a particular narrative. See it all the time in the politics thread with the likes of Mantis

This from Jonathan Wilson captures my real position very well  albeit it doesn't go far enough:

Click to see full-size image.

I've always been so pro-VAR but the in-stadium experience yesterday was miserable. And that was just for our first 2 goals when not knowing if the automatic review was over. It definitely changes the experience negatively.   Saw the 1st half wrestling move on Rhodri at half-time and that didn't help either but probably didn't make any difference to anything.

No problem with the decision for the Laporte hand ball.  Injury time winning goals are the nuts but then having it taken away and not knowing the reason at the time is a killer.

Look forward to seeing the  side of it you've experienced!

[Archer]

No question we were comically lucky yesterday. Surprised you created so little in the last 15 minutes, given how beguilingly dominant you were in the first 75. Would have been a joy to watch, had it not been against my team.

It was a perfect Pep performance and he loved it because of the amount of control. A contrast to the league game  late last season when you cut through at will in the 1st half.

The physical levels dropped off markedly at the end of the game. It will be another 4-6 week or so before we hit peak physical performance.  It's the Pep way apparently..
Also when Mahrez and David Silva came on for the last 10-15 minutes they gave the ball away about half a dozen times or so. It didn't help!

[hhyftrftdr]

''the in-stadium experience yesterday was miserable''

This is one of my biggest concern with the introduction of VAR. I couldn't make it yesterday but even in the boozer VAR was insufferable.
I'll be there in 2 weeks for the Brighton game and I really won't be looking forward to it.

We watch football because we want to watch our teams score goals. We want to experience that euphoria of someone sticking it in the onion bag. The joy of a well worked move ending with a goal. Getting lost in the moment of celebrating a winner.
Take that aspect away from football and you're removing the heartbeat of the game.

I appreciate it's in its infancy and there will be teething problems etc but if VAR dilutes the enjoyment of the game as much as I fear it will then I will be giving serious consideration to not renewing my season ticket from next year. I'm not having a near 6 hour round journey from the Midlands every other weekend to just sit on my hands when we score a goal until we get the celebratory green light from VAR.
Time will tell....

But if VAR is unable to pick up the penalty on Rodri yesterday, but last week pulls Sterling back for having an armpit hair offside, what is the fucking point of it in its current guise?

[Tal]

My City supporting friend (yes, I have a friend) messaged me after yesterday’s game to say that he now believes football is corrupt and that the VAR decisions in yesterday’s game and the CL semi-final were evidence of this.

Is this a widely held belief amongst City fans?

Of course it is corrupt.

Last year in the Champions League L16 away at Schalke - we went 1-0 down following a penalty award against Otamendi when he had literally moved his arm out of the way to a straight line and touching his body. All BT pundits said no penalty and that was after allowing for the differing UEFA hardline approach to handballs. The ref awarded the penalty on the instruction of VAR but couldn't review it because the pitchside TV had broken. Corrupt.

QF against Spurs last year.  Llorente handball for a similar offence to Laporte's yesterday. Ref looked at the pitchside TV but VAR didn't show the images that proved the ball had hit his hand before. Goal allowed. Corrupt.

Yesterday, VAR only shows 1 angle of the incident. Different supporters footage from the opposite side clearly  shows the ball hits Laporte's shoulder and falls away without touching his arm/hand. Goal disallowed. Corrupt.


Is it just a coincidence that those 3 have all had technical failings? I doubt it.

Post of the year contender.

Especially as you're usually the sensible one.

Just twisting information to suit a particular narrative. See it all the time in the politics thread with the likes of Mantis

This from Jonathan Wilson captures my real position very well  albeit it doesn't go far enough:

Click to see full-size image.

I've always been so pro-VAR but the in-stadium experience yesterday was miserable. And that was just for our first 2 goals when not knowing if the automatic review was over. It definitely changes the experience negatively.   Saw the 1st half wrestling move on Rhodri at half-time and that didn't help either but probably didn't make any difference to anything.

No problem with the decision for the Laporte hand ball.  Injury time winning goals are the nuts but then having it taken away and not knowing the reason at the time is a killer.

Look forward to seeing the  side of it you've experienced!

It's a work in progress. The system works better when the fans can see the incident on screen. We all see the incident on our phones 30 seconds later anyway. Maybe we could at least see on the screen a notice that they are checking a possible handball or whether the goal was offside.

Both the Llorente and the Laporte decisions were right, based on the footage we believe the refs considered. The rule had changed in between, of course.

I'm very much pro-VAR. The pictures do their job perfectly. It's the people interpreting them that need to develop. That will come with time. Whilst it means we don't celebrate a goal properly sometimes, we get fairer outcomes and that counts for plenty in a league where a goal is worth £1M and a place can mean Europe/No Europe or Staying Up/Going Down.

[tikay]

https://twitter.com/RoyalANfield/status/1163124357956116481

[nirvana]

Generally a luddite where VAR is concerned. Don't think it adds anything to the spectacle or enjoyment of watching a game of football and often detracts. In cricket I find it the opposite.. Maybe it's just familiarity over time makes me happy with one use and not another but I think it's more fundamental than that. Cricket is supposed to be a nerds game and I love that aspect.. Football isn't.

[Pokerpops]

Generally a luddite where VAR is concerned. Don't think it adds anything to the spectacle or enjoyment of watching a game of football and often detracts. In cricket I find it the opposite.. Maybe it's just familiarity over time makes me happy with one use and not another but I think it's more fundamental than that. Cricket is supposed to be a nerds game and I love that aspect.. Football isn't.

Rugby seems to manage it’s use pretty well in both codes.

Were I a city supporter {shudder} I wouldn’t be happy to see that goal disallowed. I wouldn’t be bleating about conspiracies though. As with all refereeing decisions we just have to assume that they will even out over time.

[nirvana]

Generally a luddite where VAR is concerned. Don't think it adds anything to the spectacle or enjoyment of watching a game of football and often detracts. In cricket I find it the opposite.. Maybe it's just familiarity over time makes me happy with one use and not another but I think it's more fundamental than that. Cricket is supposed to be a nerds game and I love that aspect.. Football isn't.

Rugby seems to manage it’s use pretty well in both codes.

Were I a city supporter {shudder} I wouldn’t be happy to see that goal disallowed. I wouldn’t be bleating about conspiracies though. As with all refereeing decisions we just have to assume that they will even out over time.

Yes, have to say I don't object in Rugby either - maybe because (especially union) it is so stop and start anyway and perhaps most of the decisions seem clearer cut to me. A forward pass, is it grounded, foot in touch.

Handball or not and a nipple offside are hard to get right and make look like they are worthwhile interruptions to the game. If they persist then the logical extension will be handball being interpreted like at the weekend for every instance. Also, when a nipple or a toe is offside and a frame or two make a difference, it can't be long before there is a challenge to how someone determines when the ball is kicked. Anyway, pretty sure the laws will change to get rid of these pointless (and still controversial) changes to the nature of the game.

[hhyftrftdr]

Generally a luddite where VAR is concerned. Don't think it adds anything to the spectacle or enjoyment of watching a game of football and often detracts. In cricket I find it the opposite.. Maybe it's just familiarity over time makes me happy with one use and not another but I think it's more fundamental than that. Cricket is supposed to be a nerds game and I love that aspect.. Football isn't.

Rugby seems to manage it’s use pretty well in both codes.

Were I a city supporter {shudder} I wouldn’t be happy to see that goal disallowed. I wouldn’t be bleating about conspiracies though. As with all refereeing decisions we just have to assume that they will even out over time.

Yes, have to say I don't object in Rugby either - maybe because (especially union) it is so stop and start anyway and perhaps most of the decisions seem clearer cut to me. A forward pass, is it grounded, foot in touch.

Handball or not and a nipple offside are hard to get right and make look like they are worthwhile interruptions to the game. If they persist then the logical extension will be handball being interpreted like at the weekend for every instance. Also, when a nipple or a toe is offside and a frame or two make a difference, it can't be long before there is a challenge to how someone determines when the ball is kicked. Anyway, pretty sure the laws will change to get rid of these pointless (and still controversial) changes to the nature of the game.

I hope all this isn't detracting from your enjoyment of following your beloved City.

[nirvana]

Generally a luddite where VAR is concerned. Don't think it adds anything to the spectacle or enjoyment of watching a game of football and often detracts. In cricket I find it the opposite.. Maybe it's just familiarity over time makes me happy with one use and not another but I think it's more fundamental than that. Cricket is supposed to be a nerds game and I love that aspect.. Football isn't.

Rugby seems to manage it’s use pretty well in both codes.

Were I a city supporter {shudder} I wouldn’t be happy to see that goal disallowed. I wouldn’t be bleating about conspiracies though. As with all refereeing decisions we just have to assume that they will even out over time.

Yes, have to say I don't object in Rugby either - maybe because (especially union) it is so stop and start anyway and perhaps most of the decisions seem clearer cut to me. A forward pass, is it grounded, foot in touch.

Handball or not and a nipple offside are hard to get right and make look like they are worthwhile interruptions to the game. If they persist then the logical extension will be handball being interpreted like at the weekend for every instance. Also, when a nipple or a toe is offside and a frame or two make a difference, it can't be long before there is a challenge to how someone determines when the ball is kicked. Anyway, pretty sure the laws will change to get rid of these pointless (and still controversial) changes to the nature of the game.

I hope all this isn't detracting from your enjoyment of following your beloved City.

Was gutted by the disallowed goal tbf, really enjoyed Jesus' short stint - looked really sharp. Trying Arsenal again for 10-12 games , will switch later :-)

[hhyftrftdr]

Generally a luddite where VAR is concerned. Don't think it adds anything to the spectacle or enjoyment of watching a game of football and often detracts. In cricket I find it the opposite.. Maybe it's just familiarity over time makes me happy with one use and not another but I think it's more fundamental than that. Cricket is supposed to be a nerds game and I love that aspect.. Football isn't.

Rugby seems to manage it’s use pretty well in both codes.

Were I a city supporter {shudder} I wouldn’t be happy to see that goal disallowed. I wouldn’t be bleating about conspiracies though. As with all refereeing decisions we just have to assume that they will even out over time.

Yes, have to say I don't object in Rugby either - maybe because (especially union) it is so stop and start anyway and perhaps most of the decisions seem clearer cut to me. A forward pass, is it grounded, foot in touch.

Handball or not and a nipple offside are hard to get right and make look like they are worthwhile interruptions to the game. If they persist then the logical extension will be handball being interpreted like at the weekend for every instance. Also, when a nipple or a toe is offside and a frame or two make a difference, it can't be long before there is a challenge to how someone determines when the ball is kicked. Anyway, pretty sure the laws will change to get rid of these pointless (and still controversial) changes to the nature of the game.

I hope all this isn't detracting from your enjoyment of following your beloved City.

Was gutted by the disallowed goal tbf, really enjoyed Jesus' short stint - looked really sharp. Trying Arsenal again for 10-12 games , will switch later :-)

Loyalty is dead.

[tikay]

Generally a luddite where VAR is concerned. Don't think it adds anything to the spectacle or enjoyment of watching a game of football and often detracts. In cricket I find it the opposite.. Maybe it's just familiarity over time makes me happy with one use and not another but I think it's more fundamental than that. Cricket is supposed to be a nerds game and I love that aspect.. Football isn't.

Rugby seems to manage it’s use pretty well in both codes.

Were I a city supporter {shudder} I wouldn’t be happy to see that goal disallowed. I wouldn’t be bleating about conspiracies though. As with all refereeing decisions we just have to assume that they will even out over time.

Yes, have to say I don't object in Rugby either - maybe because (especially union) it is so stop and start anyway and perhaps most of the decisions seem clearer cut to me. A forward pass, is it grounded, foot in touch.

Handball or not and a nipple offside are hard to get right and make look like they are worthwhile interruptions to the game. If they persist then the logical extension will be handball being interpreted like at the weekend for every instance. Also, when a nipple or a toe is offside and a frame or two make a difference, it can't be long before there is a challenge to how someone determines when the ball is kicked. Anyway, pretty sure the laws will change to get rid of these pointless (and still controversial) changes to the nature of the game.

I hope all this isn't detracting from your enjoyment of following your beloved City.

Was gutted by the disallowed goal tbf, really enjoyed Jesus' short stint - looked really sharp. Trying Arsenal again for 10-12 games , will switch later :-)

Loyalty is dead.

Never mind that, you should be watching MNF.

[hhyftrftdr]

Generally a luddite where VAR is concerned. Don't think it adds anything to the spectacle or enjoyment of watching a game of football and often detracts. In cricket I find it the opposite.. Maybe it's just familiarity over time makes me happy with one use and not another but I think it's more fundamental than that. Cricket is supposed to be a nerds game and I love that aspect.. Football isn't.

Rugby seems to manage it’s use pretty well in both codes.

Were I a city supporter {shudder} I wouldn’t be happy to see that goal disallowed. I wouldn’t be bleating about conspiracies though. As with all refereeing decisions we just have to assume that they will even out over time.

Yes, have to say I don't object in Rugby either - maybe because (especially union) it is so stop and start anyway and perhaps most of the decisions seem clearer cut to me. A forward pass, is it grounded, foot in touch.

Handball or not and a nipple offside are hard to get right and make look like they are worthwhile interruptions to the game. If they persist then the logical extension will be handball being interpreted like at the weekend for every instance. Also, when a nipple or a toe is offside and a frame or two make a difference, it can't be long before there is a challenge to how someone determines when the ball is kicked. Anyway, pretty sure the laws will change to get rid of these pointless (and still controversial) changes to the nature of the game.

I hope all this isn't detracting from your enjoyment of following your beloved City.

Was gutted by the disallowed goal tbf, really enjoyed Jesus' short stint - looked really sharp. Trying Arsenal again for 10-12 games , will switch later :-)

Loyalty is dead.

Never mind that, you should be watching MNF.

Like I can afford Sky Sports.
We don't all get it for free as part of a work package

[hhyftrftdr]

Pretty reasonable Champions League draw for us. None of the other teams are mugs but as long as we play close to our best then we should ease through. Subject to VAR of course

The Atalanta away game is being played in Milan, and managed to snap up an East Midlands - Milan (Bergamo, ironically) return for £24 just before the fixture dates were officially confirmed by UEFA; a friends brother had seen a leaked games list on Twitter, so I decided that was enough for me to take the gamble at a stupidly low price. Before I went to bed those exact flights were almost £300 return.

Not done a Euro away day since Kiev in February 2016 so it's well overdue. Also never been to Milan (though I've heard very mixed things) and doing 2 nights rather the usual in and out 1 nighter, so plenty of scope for beers, food and fridge magnet shopping.

Brighton at home tomorrow and first game in my new seat, and first game in a stadium with VAR in action...….won't even mention it if it continues to give baffling calls against us

[booder]

Been a bit quiet in here lately. You boys on holiday ?