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Author Topic: Official cryptocurrency thread (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Altcoin)  (Read 302063 times)
lucky_scrote
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« Reply #75 on: July 10, 2017, 04:35:58 PM »



Isn't it more likely that VISA will just develop their own version of crypto currency/blockchain and with their globally known and trusted brand just eclipse the market? Could they just be letting bitcoin and shitcoin run all the beta testing before buying one of them for billions and making it their own?

A lot of what I've watched talks about how amazing the instant transactions are and how much better it is than cash. I don't remember last time I had to make a UK based transaction that wasn't instant. Credit cards are now contactless and it's just a beep and you're done. Were some of these videos perhaps made in the early days of bitcoin when instant transactions were a bit more difficult?

 

I think I read somewhere that VISA was trying to recruit programmers for blockchain technology. The problem is they are going to have to pay someone $5m a year to do it. If VISA came out with their own coin it would probably be regulated and if bitcoin or other coins are already established and trusted, then people won't care if VISA have their own coin because they won't trust it.

The transactions aren't instant at all. The only thing that is instant is that you make a purchase with your debit card and the pin machine says "accepted". That payment will take up to 5 days to reach visa. This isn't particularly a problem for the consumer obviously, problems for the consumer start when you want to make transfers of your money to someone else that isn't a visa merchant, or transferring money from one of your accounts to another.
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« Reply #76 on: July 10, 2017, 04:48:24 PM »



Isn't it more likely that VISA will just develop their own version of crypto currency/blockchain and with their globally known and trusted brand just eclipse the market? Could they just be letting bitcoin and shitcoin run all the beta testing before buying one of them for billions and making it their own?

A lot of what I've watched talks about how amazing the instant transactions are and how much better it is than cash. I don't remember last time I had to make a UK based transaction that wasn't instant. Credit cards are now contactless and it's just a beep and you're done. Were some of these videos perhaps made in the early days of bitcoin when instant transactions were a bit more difficult?

 

I think I read somewhere that VISA was trying to recruit programmers for blockchain technology. The problem is they are going to have to pay someone $5m a year to do it. If VISA came out with their own coin it would probably be regulated and if bitcoin or other coins are already established and trusted, then people won't care if VISA have their own coin because they won't trust it.

The transactions aren't instant at all. The only thing that is instant is that you make a purchase with your debit card and the pin machine says "accepted". That payment will take up to 5 days to reach visa. This isn't particularly a problem for the consumer obviously, problems for the consumer start when you want to make transfers of your money to someone else that isn't a visa merchant, or transferring money from one of your accounts to another.

Yeah bitcoin needs to become established before a 'name' get there without doubt. Lolz at it not being trusted if the VISA name gets attached to it though. You really believe that?

I'm pretty sure I can transfer up to £20k instantly to someone else's bank account if I need to. Any more than that is more awkward but I can't see how that's a problem for 99.99% of the population, myself included.

Still struggling to see what bitcoin can do for me that I can't do already other than be an investment which may go down as well as up?


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lucky_scrote
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« Reply #77 on: July 10, 2017, 04:53:06 PM »


Yeah bitcoin needs to become established before a 'name' get there without doubt. Lolz at it not being trusted if the VISA name gets attached to it though. You really believe that?

I'm pretty sure I can transfer up to £20k instantly to someone else's bank account if I need to. Any more than that is more awkward but I can't see how that's a problem for 99.99% of the population, myself included.

Still struggling to see what bitcoin can do for me that I can't do already other than be an investment which may go down as well as up?


People who currently understand how blockchain works will steer away from a centralised or heavily regulated coin. I can't speak for the masses though.

How many peoples accounts can you transfer £20k instantly to? I would say people who live in England that share the same bank as you, a couple of hours for people who are in England that don't share the same bank as you, about 24 hours in Europe and up to 5 working days or more outside of Europe.
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« Reply #78 on: July 10, 2017, 05:51:51 PM »

The fact that no-one seems able to explain the value in any kind of meaningful way makes me ever more certain that this is a religious cult.

One day you gonna wake up and yr bitcoin will have the value of a little bit of your coin, like a really little bit. This is FACT - reminds me of just one of a series of heavily ramped shares in the late 90's - one that I was thoroughly enamoured by was the well named Monticello. True a number of people made a lot of money trading the share for a year or so but in the end, anyone who 'invested' eventually lost the lot. Of the heavily ramped shares that survived, well guess what my friends, they actually had a business worth investing in.
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« Reply #79 on: July 10, 2017, 06:01:12 PM »

The fact that no-one seems able to explain the value in any kind of meaningful way makes me ever more certain that this is a religious cult.

One day you gonna wake up and yr bitcoin will have the value of a little bit of your coin, like a really little bit. This is FACT - reminds me of just one of a series of heavily ramped shares in the late 90's - one that I was thoroughly enamoured by was the well named Monticello. True a number of people made a lot of money trading the share for a year or so but in the end, anyone who 'invested' eventually lost the lot. Of the heavily ramped shares that survived, well guess what my friends, they actually had a business worth investing in.

Did you read the articles I provided? Have you read any further articles?
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« Reply #80 on: July 10, 2017, 06:03:12 PM »

The fact that no-one seems able to explain the value in any kind of meaningful way makes me ever more certain that this is a religious cult.

One day you gonna wake up and yr bitcoin will have the value of a little bit of your coin, like a really little bit. This is FACT - reminds me of just one of a series of heavily ramped shares in the late 90's - one that I was thoroughly enamoured by was the well named Monticello. True a number of people made a lot of money trading the share for a year or so but in the end, anyone who 'invested' eventually lost the lot. Of the heavily ramped shares that survived, well guess what my friends, they actually had a business worth investing in.

Did you read the articles I provided? Have you read any further articles?

Even though I have, I don't really need to as I am something of an expert, hence the use of FACT
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« Reply #81 on: July 10, 2017, 06:31:33 PM »

Nice to see FACT making a comeback.

I miss M3boy.
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« Reply #82 on: July 10, 2017, 06:48:37 PM »

The fact that no-one seems able to explain the value in any kind of meaningful way makes me ever more certain that this is a religious cult.

One day you gonna wake up and yr bitcoin will have the value of a little bit of your coin, like a really little bit. This is FACT - reminds me of just one of a series of heavily ramped shares in the late 90's - one that I was thoroughly enamoured by was the well named Monticello. True a number of people made a lot of money trading the share for a year or so but in the end, anyone who 'invested' eventually lost the lot. Of the heavily ramped shares that survived, well guess what my friends, they actually had a business worth investing in.

Did you read the articles I provided? Have you read any further articles?

Even though I have, I don't really need to as I am something of an expert, hence the use of FACT

You will enjoy the next Forbes cover, although i imagine you've already seen it.
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« Reply #83 on: July 11, 2017, 12:57:53 AM »

The fact that no-one seems able to explain the value in any kind of meaningful way makes me ever more certain that this is a religious cult.

One day you gonna wake up and yr bitcoin will have the value of a little bit of your coin, like a really little bit. This is FACT - reminds me of just one of a series of heavily ramped shares in the late 90's - one that I was thoroughly enamoured by was the well named Monticello. True a number of people made a lot of money trading the share for a year or so but in the end, anyone who 'invested' eventually lost the lot. Of the heavily ramped shares that survived, well guess what my friends, they actually had a business worth investing in.

I've tried to be helpful in this thread and offered both sides of the coin (ah-hem). Crypto has enormous obstacles to overcome. I'm not in here saying "you fools should get involved, you're stupid for not seeing the bigger picture etc" although it would sadistically give me a bit of pleasure after your post.

Let's forget about the investment side of it. If money was somehow not currently tangible to crypto at the moment then it would be an insanely hot topic because the nay-sayers would all be interested.

I've spent an enormous amount of time trying to learn about the technology and it's going to have to take you more than one person posting on blonde poker to become enlightened and grasp it. Do you think in 1997 every man and his wife understood the internet? We've come a long way since then. My mum now sends messages from one person to another by clicking 2 buttons on her smart phone followed by text, whilst in 2007 she genuinely did not know how to turn a computer on.

Bitcoin whitepaper (created in 2011 I think) https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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lucky_scrote
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« Reply #84 on: July 11, 2017, 01:12:24 AM »

As for everyone calling it a bubble- personally I don't know how I feel about it all. If there is a relationship between how blockchain is to be implemented in our lives and the value of crypto then I am as sure as anything that we shouldn't keep all our money in fiat money (government money). The markets seem wild and there are many uncertainties. This month and the next is expected to see some increase in volatility in all crypto markets (last 24h have not been pleasant viewing). The increase of exposure and interest in crypto has gone through the roof this year and if history teaches us anything we can often be wildly off with valuation. Look at the dotcom bubble of 2000-2002.
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« Reply #85 on: July 11, 2017, 01:14:41 AM »

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« Reply #86 on: July 11, 2017, 09:08:02 AM »

CC's (crypto currencies) are like money in some ways so they have to fulfill 3 parts (warning economic 101 lesson)

Medium of exchange - this is a way of transferring a sum of wealth from one entity to another, this could be me buying a mars bar from a shop and paying with it for cash, or transferring £50 to a friend via PayPal. CCs are good at the second of these but not the first at the moment.

Store of value - if I put £100 in a bank account for 1 year at 1% I know I will get back £101 in 365 days. If I buy gold or a share in Apple or some CC I don't know what it will be worth in 1 year - it may go up or not. CC is not a reliable store of value.

Unit of account - this is 2 parties knowing how much something is worth using money as the describing factor. CC is arguably good at this in the short term if both parties know it's current price.

Some discussion of CCs does not clarify which of the features of money CCs are trying to fulfill. They are better at some than others.
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« Reply #87 on: July 11, 2017, 09:56:59 AM »

About that store of value thing, Etherium down 24% in the last 24 hours

https://coinmarketcap.com/
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nirvana
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« Reply #88 on: July 11, 2017, 10:10:47 AM »

The fact that no-one seems able to explain the value in any kind of meaningful way makes me ever more certain that this is a religious cult.

One day you gonna wake up and yr bitcoin will have the value of a little bit of your coin, like a really little bit. This is FACT - reminds me of just one of a series of heavily ramped shares in the late 90's - one that I was thoroughly enamoured by was the well named Monticello. True a number of people made a lot of money trading the share for a year or so but in the end, anyone who 'invested' eventually lost the lot. Of the heavily ramped shares that survived, well guess what my friends, they actually had a business worth investing in.

I've tried to be helpful in this thread and offered both sides of the coin (ah-hem). Crypto has enormous obstacles to overcome. I'm not in here saying "you fools should get involved, you're stupid for not seeing the bigger picture etc" although it would sadistically give me a bit of pleasure after your post.

Let's forget about the investment side of it. If money was somehow not currently tangible to crypto at the moment then it would be an insanely hot topic because the nay-sayers would all be interested.

I've spent an enormous amount of time trying to learn about the technology and it's going to have to take you more than one person posting on blonde poker to become enlightened and grasp it. Do you think in 1997 every man and his wife understood the internet? We've come a long way since then. My mum now sends messages from one person to another by clicking 2 buttons on her smart phone followed by text, whilst in 2007 she genuinely did not know how to turn a computer on.

Bitcoin whitepaper (created in 2011 I think) https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

You have been helpful despite your zeal and on the balance of probabilities the pure technology angle seems likely to be a winning thing in some form or another. There are lots of examples where expertise and acquired knowledge in a single area leads to success in ways that weren't the original intent.

A company like GE was so good at making money by making things that they develop a division, GE Financial services, which became their most profitable division (nb, this was true at one time but my knowledge is outdated). McDonnell Douglas, huge power users of CAD/CAM, general  and network computing to support their core activity become so expert that they can spin off an international Information Systems division. Lots of car companies exist primarily as a major financial services provider on the back of the core activity. I am sure there are many better examples.

It will be interesting to see whether spin off functionality starts to drive some huge new businesses barely related to crypto currency per se.
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« Reply #89 on: July 11, 2017, 10:34:03 AM »

The fact that no-one seems able to explain the value in any kind of meaningful way makes me ever more certain that this is a religious cult.

One day you gonna wake up and yr bitcoin will have the value of a little bit of your coin, like a really little bit. This is FACT - reminds me of just one of a series of heavily ramped shares in the late 90's - one that I was thoroughly enamoured by was the well named Monticello. True a number of people made a lot of money trading the share for a year or so but in the end, anyone who 'invested' eventually lost the lot. Of the heavily ramped shares that survived, well guess what my friends, they actually had a business worth investing in.

I've tried to be helpful in this thread and offered both sides of the coin (ah-hem). Crypto has enormous obstacles to overcome. I'm not in here saying "you fools should get involved, you're stupid for not seeing the bigger picture etc" although it would sadistically give me a bit of pleasure after your post.

Let's forget about the investment side of it. If money was somehow not currently tangible to crypto at the moment then it would be an insanely hot topic because the nay-sayers would all be interested.

I've spent an enormous amount of time trying to learn about the technology and it's going to have to take you more than one person posting on blonde poker to become enlightened and grasp it. Do you think in 1997 every man and his wife understood the internet? We've come a long way since then. My mum now sends messages from one person to another by clicking 2 buttons on her smart phone followed by text, whilst in 2007 she genuinely did not know how to turn a computer on.

Bitcoin whitepaper (created in 2011 I think) https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

You have been helpful despite your zeal and on the balance of probabilities the pure technology angle seems likely to be a winning thing in some form or another. There are lots of examples where expertise and acquired knowledge in a single area leads to success in ways that weren't the original intent.

A company like GE was so good at making money by making things that they develop a division, GE Financial services, which became their most profitable division (nb, this was true at one time but my knowledge is outdated). McDonnell Douglas, huge power users of CAD/CAM, general  and network computing to support their core activity become so expert that they can spin off an international Information Systems division. Lots of car companies exist primarily as a major financial services provider on the back of the core activity. I am sure there are many better examples.

It will be interesting to see whether spin off functionality starts to drive some huge new businesses barely related to crypto currency per se, FACT.



FYP
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