Official cryptocurrency thread (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Altcoin)

[Ledders]

Bitcoin and cryptocurrency is a bubble.

Blockchain itself is the future (whatever that is).

Can both those statements be true?

[lucky_scrote]

Bitcoin and cryptocurrency is a bubble.

Blockchain itself is the future (whatever that is).

Can both those statements be true?

Yes. The first is reasonably likely and the second is 100%.

[EvilPie]

Bitcoin and cryptocurrency is a bubble.

Blockchain itself is the future (whatever that is).

Can both those statements be true?

Yes. The first is reasonably likely and the second is 100%.

I find your extremely balanced views on bitcoin very refreshing. One post you predict they may be worth $7000 in 4 months, another post you accept they may have disappeared almost completely.

As an aside; Is it possible to be 'extremely' balanced?

[lucky_scrote]

Bitcoin and cryptocurrency is a bubble.

Blockchain itself is the future (whatever that is).

Can both those statements be true?

Yes. The first is reasonably likely and the second is 100%.

I find your extremely balanced views on bitcoin very refreshing. One post you predict they may be worth $7000 in 4 months, another post you accept they may have disappeared almost completely.

As an aside; Is it possible to be 'extremely' balanced?

Its grown so quickly it will naturally crash down. I think a lot of alt coins will vanish into thin air which is a kind of crash. I can't predict if or when a bubble is going to happen. Bitcoin has already crashed several times in the past and lost a lot of its value. In my phone so can't check now but I believe on more than one occasion in the past its lost 80% of its value. How much of its value does it have to lose to be deemed a crash and for how long does it have to stay under its value when in the bubble?

[EvilPie]

Bitcoin and cryptocurrency is a bubble.

Blockchain itself is the future (whatever that is).

Can both those statements be true?

Yes. The first is reasonably likely and the second is 100%.

I find your extremely balanced views on bitcoin very refreshing. One post you predict they may be worth $7000 in 4 months, another post you accept they may have disappeared almost completely.

As an aside; Is it possible to be 'extremely' balanced?

Its grown so quickly it will naturally crash down. I think a lot of alt coins will vanish into thin air which is a kind of crash. I can't predict if or when a bubble is going to happen. Bitcoin has already crashed several times in the past and lost a lot of its value. In my phone so can't check now but I believe on more than one occasion in the past its lost 80% of its value. How much of its value does it have to lose to be deemed a crash and for how long does it have to stay under its value when in the bubble?

What's caused the recent huge increase? I read something a short while ago about a crisis of some kind being averted, is that it? If that is I then when will the next crisis come along? A crisis seems to be great for bitcoin. Most thing just stay as they are if they avoid one, bitcoin rockets

[lucky_scrote]

For proponents, if we take the price of any altcoin out of the equation.

If you had  £100K knocking around (perhaps you do) - would you swap it all for alt coins

£500K, swap it ?

I don't understand what you really mean

It's badly put but simple really. If you had 100k cash in hand, would you swap that 100k for however many bit coins that buys today

I put in a % of my money into bitcoin when I started. It was an amount that suited me at the time and was an amount I was comfortable saying goodbye to if all goes tits up. As time goes on the confidence in crypto rises, as does the value and as does the % of my net worth it is so I don't really need to invest anymore.

Right now if 100k fell on my lap I would probably put 25% of it into bitcoin. The shameful thing is I would put the rest In a "savings" account just simply because I need access to money as a poker player and because it's easier to buy things with fiat currency. For now.

[acegooner]

But, the dollar has no real valuem, it is just a unit of exchange.  Many of the reasons given for the huge value of bitcoins aren't reasons why it should be so valuable.   They just seem to be reasons why it is useful.

What are the reasons why cryptos should be so valuable and what are the reasons it should be worth $4000 (or $200 or $50,000)? 

There are going to be a total of 21m bitcoin in circulation, say they are worth $1000 each there will be people who want to equally buy and sell for that price. If someone doesn't own a bitcoin and they want it, they can buy it. If nobody wants to sell at $1000, the price goes up.

I get acegooners stance tbh, he has a background in finance and has a decent knowledge of many things that most won't. Crypto comes along and a lot of people have made a large turnover in a very short amount of time without having a clue what is happening. I think that can be quite infuriating and I would want it to fail and for the foolish people to suffer. I think that's human nature to see a fool that is getting lucky to fail.

I am going to ignore other crypto and talk just about Bitcoin and why it's a great investment for the time being and why it has the possibility to take over non-crypto currency.

Store of value

1. First it was the land you owned and the resources you developed on that land

2. Then it was metals such as gold and silver. Difficult to exchange, difficult to transport if you had a lot of it (ancient greek world problems). Paper currency followed long after this and was backed by gold.

3. Electronic currency. Easily transportable but high transaction fees and zero privacy.

4. Next generation is Cryptocurrency. Easily transportable, little to no transaction fees*, no human intervention between payor and payee, high anonymity and functionality. Money evolves.

*This could be argued that currently with bitcoin transfer fees are high for small transactions.


We live in a world where the current monetary system could probably be explained by less people than could the crypto monetary system. People invest their money in many channels such as shares, savings account, premium bonds, gold, antiques you name it. Anyone who has the privilege of not being in debt and able to save money doesn't have a clue what to do with their money and does not understand what are the best paths to take. I think most people put their money into their savings account which stores their money in a FIAT currency. It's ironic that it's called a savings account since quite obviously your money is diminishing every year but the "amount" goes up slightly.

A lot of people don't understand bitcoin and IMO you don't have to if you don't want to, I would suggest anyone wanting to invest to do so in bitcoin and no other alternative crypto. The majority of people on message boards on reddit and such are mostly looking to make a quick buck and it's carnage in some of those subreddits. They are mostly flooded with 20 year olds who are investing $50 and trying to spin it up. There are also a lot of people who invest decent chunks into alternative crypto without any knowledge whatsoever. If it gives you some kind of satisfaction acegooner, a lot of people have done their nuts this way.

Sorry that I am remembering previous posts and that this is structured but I also remember gooner saying that if you don't get it in an offline wallet that you will be scammed and be stolen from. This is just not true. Cryptocurrency has private keys with most (all) of your coins. When you receive them you can write them down on a piece of paper if you wish which does have it's risk just like paper money does. You could always just make two copies and hide them in separate locations if you wish, or in a vault. You can also have a desktop wallet which is safe unless your computer is compromised, if you take precautions then your wallet is very safe. It's a good idea to not tell people that you have $2m in crypto for this reason because then it might be worth it for a team of 50 hackers to have a bash and hacking you. You can leave it all on an exchange which is also pretty damn safe but probably the riskiest choice. In 2013 or so an exchange one day decided to steal everyones bitcoins. GG.

All we are waiting for is adoption really. Currently some big merchants accept bitcoin online. The Dutch version of just-eat.co.uk has been accepting it since 2013. There are 60 or so ATM's in London (not 20) where you can withdraw or buy bitcoin, the fees are really high though atm at 6% and I can only assume that is because there isn't much demand for it. One of the things I am excited for in the future will be the disgusting costs that the likes of western union charge people. Many immigrants move to countries with better opportunities and regularly send money back to their home to give their family in the poor country a better chance. Currently the only option is to use western union/moneygram since a lot of people in poor countries have no access to banking. These companies charge 20% (and up to 40% to some of the poorest countries). With a complete implementation of bitcoin all these people need access to is a smartphone (which even the poorest of people own or will own in the future) to be able to receive bitcoin, go to a local vendor and trade their bitcoin for their local currency. Since it will be so easy for a person to become a bitcoin vendor by then, rates will become extremely low and competitive.

We live in a world where up until now the economy has it's rules that has been created by the people at the top. The economy and monetary system is obviously a complicated thing but with bitcoin we have set up our own rules that can and will be beneficial in every way compared to the current system.

Finally, I have blabbered here and I probably have some holes in my points. I am not an expert in the economy or bitcoin.

It's quite insultive to say people would want cryptos to fail so that foolish people lose money. Personally I don't like people being exposed to investments where they do not understand the risks they are taking, hence trying to offer a voice of reason. In the financial planning world when you are advising clients risk assessment is key for any recommendation, to do this effectively you have to explain in lay mans terms how risk and reward works.

The problem with cryptos and I find myself repeating myself is they are totally unregulated, to the extent you have criminals using them as bargaining chips e.g. the recent NHS hacking attack.

With regards to storing cryptos yes you can do this offline, but why should you even have the threat of someone hacking into your wallet and stealing your assets, again a regulatory issue.

Did you watch or read what Warren Buffet said about crypto currencies, you would do well to take notice of what he is saying rather than make pie in the sky predictions on BTCs future value. Buffet doesn't get it wrong very often.

[youthnkzR]

Saw someone had MCO on here... hope you held!

Anyone interested in any other projects atm?

Personally I think; NEO / TenX / Populous / Bytom / OMG are all nice projects... Binance Coin (BNB) is also taking off at the minute (used to pay fees on the Binance exchange at a discounted rate)... Binance itself is becoming a very competitive marketplace... daily trade volume has already been exceeding $100m and its barely a month old! Creates a nice bridge between east and west... great interface... very efficient... (Will be the first exchange to trade Hshares (HSR) which I think could be another interesting project - https://h.cash/ - is the website link).

A couple of longshots / potential projects for me are; SOMN and XtraBYtes (currently in the process of 'rebranding').

A couple of ICOs I think are interesting:

Agrello (DELTA)... recently closed.  - https://www.agrello.org/

Propy - https://propy.com/

And am very interested in Aventus - https://aventus.io/ for an upcoming one... Really useful!

Anybody any thoughts on these projects I'm open to discussion!

[RED-DOG]

Burger King launches WhopperCoin crypto-cash in Russia - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41082388

[roshambo]

price has gone up $2k since thread started on July 4th

[lucky_scrote]

Burger King launches WhopperCoin crypto-cash in Russia - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41082388

They are basically setting up the rewards program on a blockchain. I think its only a matter of time before others follow. The next couple of years are going to be very interesting.

@youthinkzr I've been holding MCO yeh but didn't really go mental at the ICO. Only 1% portfolio. I've not looked at any icos recently but I'm going to spend all my time looking into all the NEO icos once I'm back from my hols

[acegooner]

Burger King launches WhopperCoin crypto-cash in Russia - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41082388

 

Brilliant, I don't need an excuse to buy a burger from BK again! Truly comical!

Apparently, Warren Buffet goes to Macdonalds every morning for his breakfast, someone tell him where he is going wrong !!!!

[lucky_scrote]

Bitcoin market capitalisation comparison

[acegooner]

Any chance we can change this thread to the deluded investor? The fact BTC market cap is around 7/8% of Apple is enough reason to know it's overvalued. There are lots of quality companies in both the S&P 500 and FTSE100 who are much more of a solid investment that
and do not have the same market cap as BTC.

Most crypto currency speculators usually don't bother looking at stocks and shares, they want the crack cocaine of investments imo.

[Whollyflush]

Any chance we can change this thread to the deluded investor? The fact BTC market cap is around 7/8% of Apple is enough reason to know it's overvalued. There are lots of quality companies in both the S&P 500 and FTSE100 who are much more of a solid investment that
and do not have the same market cap as BTC.

Most crypto currency speculators usually don't bother looking at stocks and shares, they want the crack cocaine of investments imo.

You must be revelling in the latest slump Acegooner. The world is a changing place, embrace it.