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Liverpool FC
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Topic: Liverpool FC (Read 1282415 times)
Archer
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 1053
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #9300 on:
August 28, 2014, 11:15:12 PM »
Quote from: TheDazzler on August 28, 2014, 02:30:06 PM
Quote from: arbboy on August 28, 2014, 11:32:28 AM
Quote from: TheDazzler on August 28, 2014, 11:22:48 AM
The seedings are based on those teams performances in Europe over the last 5 years.
It seems a perfectly reasonable system.
I don't think it's reasonable at all. It just helps protect a tv cartel of the big 12 or so clubs going as deep as possible by the seeding being directly linked to previous season's performance which makes breaking it tougher and tougher as each season goes on. By the every title of the competition the top 8 seeds in pot A should be the top 8 ranked countries champions from the previous season imo.
It's more reasonable than your suggestion
Your system protects the strongest leagues, the current system protects the strongest clubs. Not much difference and just swings and roundabouts.
Arsenal are in the 1st pot coz they are one of the top 8 teams in the competition (and they would be, even without CL money).
Replacing them with Anderlecht would be silly.
If you wish to redistribute the money the CL generates, there are better ways than promoting your 'affirmative action' policies, which would simply weaken the competition.
I dunno, give the Champions of every league in Europe £10m. Distribute the TV money equally between all the teams that participate.
Even if you did that, or even further, if you gave Anderlecht Arsenals share of the CL money over the next 10 years and gave Arsenal Anderlechts share of money, in 10 years time Arsenal will still be the richer and stronger club due to other income streams.
In your system, teams like Celtic/Apoel/Basel/Olympiakos that have previously done well at European level can't EVER break into the top seeds due to their countries co-efficient.
Also if you have a problem with the title of the Champions League, would you prefer if we named it the 'The Very Good Teams League'?
It strikes me as absurd that Arsenal, having finished 4th (again) and having only just qualified for the Group Stage can effectively be seeded higher than Liverpool and City after finishing below them in the league last year. My personal view is the current system is a nonsense.
However, the point that has prompted me to post, is your assertion Arsenal would be in the top 8 clubs in Europe without Champions League money. You might not be aware that even using the flawed UEFA ranking system they are currently ranked 10th (and 9th for 2013/2014) They have only made Pot 1 because of the failure of 2 clubs above them to qualify and are hanging by a thread should they again qualify for next year's Champions League.
I think you are overstating Arsenals position. They are current ranked 10th in the Uefa ranking table (9th last year) and have only qualified for Pot 1 becasue a couple of clubs above them didn't make it.
«
Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 11:17:37 PM by Archer
»
Logged
arbboy
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 13285
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #9301 on:
August 28, 2014, 11:19:34 PM »
Quote from: Archer on August 28, 2014, 11:15:12 PM
Quote from: TheDazzler on August 28, 2014, 02:30:06 PM
Quote from: arbboy on August 28, 2014, 11:32:28 AM
Quote from: TheDazzler on August 28, 2014, 11:22:48 AM
The seedings are based on those teams performances in Europe over the last 5 years.
It seems a perfectly reasonable system.
I don't think it's reasonable at all. It just helps protect a tv cartel of the big 12 or so clubs going as deep as possible by the seeding being directly linked to previous season's performance which makes breaking it tougher and tougher as each season goes on. By the every title of the competition the top 8 seeds in pot A should be the top 8 ranked countries champions from the previous season imo.
It's more reasonable than your suggestion
Your system protects the strongest leagues, the current system protects the strongest clubs. Not much difference and just swings and roundabouts.
Arsenal are in the 1st pot coz they are one of the top 8 teams in the competition (and they would be, even without CL money).
Replacing them with Anderlecht would be silly.
If you wish to redistribute the money the CL generates, there are better ways than promoting your 'affirmative action' policies, which would simply weaken the competition.
I dunno, give the Champions of every league in Europe £10m. Distribute the TV money equally between all the teams that participate.
Even if you did that, or even further, if you gave Anderlecht Arsenals share of the CL money over the next 10 years and gave Arsenal Anderlechts share of money, in 10 years time Arsenal will still be the richer and stronger club due to other income streams.
In your system, teams like Celtic/Apoel/Basel/Olympiakos that have previously done well at European level can't EVER break into the top seeds due to their countries co-efficient.
Also if you have a problem with the title of the Champions League, would you prefer if we named it the 'The Very Good Teams League'?
It strikes me as absurd that Arsenal, having finished 4th (again) and having only just qualified for the Group Stage can effectively be seeded higher than Liverpool and City after finishing below them in the league last year. My personal view is the current system is a nonsense.
However, the point that has prompted me to post, is your assertion Arsenal would be in the top 8 clubs in Europe without Champions League money. You might not be aware that even using the flawed UEFA ranking system they are currently ranked 10th (and 9th for 2013/2014) They have only made Pot 1 because of the failure of 2 clubs above them to qualify and are hanging by a thread should they again qualify for next year's Champions League.
I think you are over
agreed they were only just the 4th best team in England last year. Big statement to say they are a top 8 side in Europe even without CL money when PSG, Real, Barca Bayern are locks to be above Arsenal as well. If you add all the marginal teams around them in any rankings then Arsenal would never be considered an auto spot for a top 8 team in Europe imo obviously.
Logged
Karabiner
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 22740
James Webb Telescope
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #9302 on:
August 28, 2014, 11:24:42 PM »
Quote from: arbboy on August 28, 2014, 11:19:34 PM
Quote from: Archer on August 28, 2014, 11:15:12 PM
Quote from: TheDazzler on August 28, 2014, 02:30:06 PM
Quote from: arbboy on August 28, 2014, 11:32:28 AM
Quote from: TheDazzler on August 28, 2014, 11:22:48 AM
The seedings are based on those teams performances in Europe over the last 5 years.
It seems a perfectly reasonable system.
I don't think it's reasonable at all. It just helps protect a tv cartel of the big 12 or so clubs going as deep as possible by the seeding being directly linked to previous season's performance which makes breaking it tougher and tougher as each season goes on. By the every title of the competition the top 8 seeds in pot A should be the top 8 ranked countries champions from the previous season imo.
It's more reasonable than your suggestion
Your system protects the strongest leagues, the current system protects the strongest clubs. Not much difference and just swings and roundabouts.
Arsenal are in the 1st pot coz they are one of the top 8 teams in the competition (and they would be, even without CL money).
Replacing them with Anderlecht would be silly.
If you wish to redistribute the money the CL generates, there are better ways than promoting your 'affirmative action' policies, which would simply weaken the competition.
I dunno, give the Champions of every league in Europe £10m. Distribute the TV money equally between all the teams that participate.
Even if you did that, or even further, if you gave Anderlecht Arsenals share of the CL money over the next 10 years and gave Arsenal Anderlechts share of money, in 10 years time Arsenal will still be the richer and stronger club due to other income streams.
In your system, teams like Celtic/Apoel/Basel/Olympiakos that have previously done well at European level can't EVER break into the top seeds due to their countries co-efficient.
Also if you have a problem with the title of the Champions League, would you prefer if we named it the 'The Very Good Teams League'?
It strikes me as absurd that Arsenal, having finished 4th (again) and having only just qualified for the Group Stage can effectively be seeded higher than Liverpool and City after finishing below them in the league last year. My personal view is the current system is a nonsense.
However, the point that has prompted me to post, is your assertion Arsenal would be in the top 8 clubs in Europe without Champions League money. You might not be aware that even using the flawed UEFA ranking system they are currently ranked 10th (and 9th for 2013/2014) They have only made Pot 1 because of the failure of 2 clubs above them to qualify and are hanging by a thread should they again qualify for next year's Champions League.
I think you are over
agreed they were only just the 4th best team in England last year. Big statement to say they are a top 8 side in Europe even without CL money when PSG, Real, Barca Bayern are locks to be above Arsenal as well. If you add all the marginal teams around them in any rankings then Arsenal would never be considered an auto spot for a top 8 team in Europe imo obviously.
Playing in the CL seventeen years on the spin obviously counts for something.
Tough titteh for Johnny-come-latelys I'd say.
Logged
"Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated. It satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same time maddening and rewarding and it is without a doubt the greatest game that mankind has ever invented." - Arnold Palmer aka The King.
arbboy
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 13285
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #9303 on:
August 28, 2014, 11:28:34 PM »
Quote from: Karabiner on August 28, 2014, 11:24:42 PM
Quote from: arbboy on August 28, 2014, 11:19:34 PM
Quote from: Archer on August 28, 2014, 11:15:12 PM
Quote from: TheDazzler on August 28, 2014, 02:30:06 PM
Quote from: arbboy on August 28, 2014, 11:32:28 AM
Quote from: TheDazzler on August 28, 2014, 11:22:48 AM
The seedings are based on those teams performances in Europe over the last 5 years.
It seems a perfectly reasonable system.
I don't think it's reasonable at all. It just helps protect a tv cartel of the big 12 or so clubs going as deep as possible by the seeding being directly linked to previous season's performance which makes breaking it tougher and tougher as each season goes on. By the every title of the competition the top 8 seeds in pot A should be the top 8 ranked countries champions from the previous season imo.
It's more reasonable than your suggestion
Your system protects the strongest leagues, the current system protects the strongest clubs. Not much difference and just swings and roundabouts.
Arsenal are in the 1st pot coz they are one of the top 8 teams in the competition (and they would be, even without CL money).
Replacing them with Anderlecht would be silly.
If you wish to redistribute the money the CL generates, there are better ways than promoting your 'affirmative action' policies, which would simply weaken the competition.
I dunno, give the Champions of every league in Europe £10m. Distribute the TV money equally between all the teams that participate.
Even if you did that, or even further, if you gave Anderlecht Arsenals share of the CL money over the next 10 years and gave Arsenal Anderlechts share of money, in 10 years time Arsenal will still be the richer and stronger club due to other income streams.
In your system, teams like Celtic/Apoel/Basel/Olympiakos that have previously done well at European level can't EVER break into the top seeds due to their countries co-efficient.
Also if you have a problem with the title of the Champions League, would you prefer if we named it the 'The Very Good Teams League'?
It strikes me as absurd that Arsenal, having finished 4th (again) and having only just qualified for the Group Stage can effectively be seeded higher than Liverpool and City after finishing below them in the league last year. My personal view is the current system is a nonsense.
However, the point that has prompted me to post, is your assertion Arsenal would be in the top 8 clubs in Europe without Champions League money. You might not be aware that even using the flawed UEFA ranking system they are currently ranked 10th (and 9th for 2013/2014) They have only made Pot 1 because of the failure of 2 clubs above them to qualify and are hanging by a thread should they again qualify for next year's Champions League.
I think you are over
agreed they were only just the 4th best team in England last year. Big statement to say they are a top 8 side in Europe even without CL money when PSG, Real, Barca Bayern are locks to be above Arsenal as well. If you add all the marginal teams around them in any rankings then Arsenal would never be considered an auto spot for a top 8 team in Europe imo obviously.
Playing in the CL seventeen years on the spin obviously counts for something.
Tough titteh for Johnny-come-latelys I'd say.
Agreed AW has done an amazing job to do 17 years in a row given how few times in those 17 years Arsenal have actually finished 1st and 2nd in the EPL.
Logged
Archer
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 1053
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #9304 on:
August 29, 2014, 12:05:40 AM »
Quote from: arbboy on August 28, 2014, 11:28:34 PM
Quote from: Karabiner on August 28, 2014, 11:24:42 PM
Quote from: arbboy on August 28, 2014, 11:19:34 PM
Quote from: Archer on August 28, 2014, 11:15:12 PM
Quote from: TheDazzler on August 28, 2014, 02:30:06 PM
Quote from: arbboy on August 28, 2014, 11:32:28 AM
Quote from: TheDazzler on August 28, 2014, 11:22:48 AM
The seedings are based on those teams performances in Europe over the last 5 years.
It seems a perfectly reasonable system.
I don't think it's reasonable at all. It just helps protect a tv cartel of the big 12 or so clubs going as deep as possible by the seeding being directly linked to previous season's performance which makes breaking it tougher and tougher as each season goes on. By the every title of the competition the top 8 seeds in pot A should be the top 8 ranked countries champions from the previous season imo.
It's more reasonable than your suggestion
Your system protects the strongest leagues, the current system protects the strongest clubs. Not much difference and just swings and roundabouts.
Arsenal are in the 1st pot coz they are one of the top 8 teams in the competition (and they would be, even without CL money).
Replacing them with Anderlecht would be silly.
If you wish to redistribute the money the CL generates, there are better ways than promoting your 'affirmative action' policies, which would simply weaken the competition.
I dunno, give the Champions of every league in Europe £10m. Distribute the TV money equally between all the teams that participate.
Even if you did that, or even further, if you gave Anderlecht Arsenals share of the CL money over the next 10 years and gave Arsenal Anderlechts share of money, in 10 years time Arsenal will still be the richer and stronger club due to other income streams.
In your system, teams like Celtic/Apoel/Basel/Olympiakos that have previously done well at European level can't EVER break into the top seeds due to their countries co-efficient.
Also if you have a problem with the title of the Champions League, would you prefer if we named it the 'The Very Good Teams League'?
It strikes me as absurd that Arsenal, having finished 4th (again) and having only just qualified for the Group Stage can effectively be seeded higher than Liverpool and City after finishing below them in the league last year. My personal view is the current system is a nonsense.
However, the point that has prompted me to post, is your assertion Arsenal would be in the top 8 clubs in Europe without Champions League money. You might not be aware that even using the flawed UEFA ranking system they are currently ranked 10th (and 9th for 2013/2014) They have only made Pot 1 because of the failure of 2 clubs above them to qualify and are hanging by a thread should they again qualify for next year's Champions League.
I think you are over
agreed they were only just the 4th best team in England last year. Big statement to say they are a top 8 side in Europe even without CL money when PSG, Real, Barca Bayern are locks to be above Arsenal as well. If you add all the marginal teams around them in any rankings then Arsenal would never be considered an auto spot for a top 8 team in Europe imo obviously.
Playing in the CL seventeen years on the spin obviously counts for something.
Tough titteh for Johnny-come-latelys I'd say.
Agreed AW has done an amazing job to do 17 years in a row given how few times in those 17 years Arsenal have actually finished 1st and 2nd in the EPL.
Agree about Wenger. A fantastic achievement.
In the last 10 years:
4th 6 times
3rd 3 times
2nd 1 time
So it seems entirely justiifable that Arsenal are Pot 1? No way IMO.
The 7 years before that were pretty good for Arsenal tho:
2nd 4 times
1st 3 times.
Logged
kinboshi
ROMANES EUNT DOMUS
Administrator
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 44302
We go again.
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #9305 on:
August 29, 2014, 01:27:46 PM »
Legend:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/xabi-alonso-reveals-he-could-never-hurt-liverpool-fans-by-signing-another-english-club-1463120
Logged
'The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.'
horseplayer
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 10601
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #9306 on:
August 29, 2014, 01:33:17 PM »
Quote from: kinboshi on August 29, 2014, 01:27:46 PM
Legend:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/xabi-alonso-reveals-he-could-never-hurt-liverpool-fans-by-signing-another-english-club-1463120
Nothing to do with Bayern nearly doubling his salary then?
Not that i blame him
Logged
DungBeetle
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 4925
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #9307 on:
August 29, 2014, 02:28:03 PM »
Quote from: Karabiner on August 28, 2014, 11:24:42 PM
Quote from: arbboy on August 28, 2014, 11:19:34 PM
Quote from: Archer on August 28, 2014, 11:15:12 PM
Quote from: TheDazzler on August 28, 2014, 02:30:06 PM
Quote from: arbboy on August 28, 2014, 11:32:28 AM
Quote from: TheDazzler on August 28, 2014, 11:22:48 AM
The seedings are based on those teams performances in Europe over the last 5 years.
It seems a perfectly reasonable system.
I don't think it's reasonable at all. It just helps protect a tv cartel of the big 12 or so clubs going as deep as possible by the seeding being directly linked to previous season's performance which makes breaking it tougher and tougher as each season goes on. By the every title of the competition the top 8 seeds in pot A should be the top 8 ranked countries champions from the previous season imo.
It's more reasonable than your suggestion
Your system protects the strongest leagues, the current system protects the strongest clubs. Not much difference and just swings and roundabouts.
Arsenal are in the 1st pot coz they are one of the top 8 teams in the competition (and they would be, even without CL money).
Replacing them with Anderlecht would be silly.
If you wish to redistribute the money the CL generates, there are better ways than promoting your 'affirmative action' policies, which would simply weaken the competition.
I dunno, give the Champions of every league in Europe £10m. Distribute the TV money equally between all the teams that participate.
Even if you did that, or even further, if you gave Anderlecht Arsenals share of the CL money over the next 10 years and gave Arsenal Anderlechts share of money, in 10 years time Arsenal will still be the richer and stronger club due to other income streams.
In your system, teams like Celtic/Apoel/Basel/Olympiakos that have previously done well at European level can't EVER break into the top seeds due to their countries co-efficient.
Also if you have a problem with the title of the Champions League, would you prefer if we named it the 'The Very Good Teams League'?
It strikes me as absurd that Arsenal, having finished 4th (again) and having only just qualified for the Group Stage can effectively be seeded higher than Liverpool and City after finishing below them in the league last year. My personal view is the current system is a nonsense.
However, the point that has prompted me to post, is your assertion Arsenal would be in the top 8 clubs in Europe without Champions League money. You might not be aware that even using the flawed UEFA ranking system they are currently ranked 10th (and 9th for 2013/2014) They have only made Pot 1 because of the failure of 2 clubs above them to qualify and are hanging by a thread should they again qualify for next year's Champions League.
I think you are over
agreed they were only just the 4th best team in England last year. Big statement to say they are a top 8 side in Europe even without CL money when PSG, Real, Barca Bayern are locks to be above Arsenal as well. If you add all the marginal teams around them in any rankings then Arsenal would never be considered an auto spot for a top 8 team in Europe imo obviously.
Playing in the CL seventeen years on the spin obviously counts for something.
Tough titteh for Johnny-come-latelys I'd say.
I don't think it should. That just encourages the "come 4th at all costs and who cares if we don't win a trophy" attitude. Teams that finish above Arsenal in the previous year's domestic league should have a higher ranking for the current round of Euro draw imo.
Logged
Nakor
Tinca Tinca
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 4023
Serve the spider
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #9308 on:
August 29, 2014, 02:34:00 PM »
Quote from: horseplayer on August 29, 2014, 01:33:17 PM
Quote from: kinboshi on August 29, 2014, 01:27:46 PM
Legend:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/xabi-alonso-reveals-he-could-never-hurt-liverpool-fans-by-signing-another-english-club-1463120
Nothing to do with Bayern nearly doubling his salary then?
Not that i blame him
My bosses little boy has been at some Chelsea training camp with Alonso's little boy - Xabi has been there most days and has been quite happy to discuss his pending move to Chelsea, until he announced on the last day he was off to Germany. Funny how things can change so quickly.
Logged
Quote from: mondatoo on April 13, 2011, 09:14:50 PM
Shit post Nakor, such a clown.
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question?
Nakor
Tinca Tinca
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 4023
Serve the spider
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #9309 on:
August 29, 2014, 04:34:35 PM »
Blonde speaks and UEFA listen . . .
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/30778/9446534/domestic-winners-to-benefit-as-uefa-plans-change-to-champions-league-seeding-system
Logged
Quote from: mondatoo on April 13, 2011, 09:14:50 PM
Shit post Nakor, such a clown.
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question?
arbboy
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 13285
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #9310 on:
August 29, 2014, 05:52:40 PM »
Quote from: Nakor on August 29, 2014, 04:34:35 PM
Blonde speaks and UEFA listen . . .
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/30778/9446534/domestic-winners-to-benefit-as-uefa-plans-change-to-champions-league-seeding-system
It's my other job working on the uefa panel!
Logged
Archer
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 1053
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #9311 on:
August 29, 2014, 09:19:48 PM »
Quote from: Nakor on August 29, 2014, 04:34:35 PM
Blonde speaks and UEFA listen . . .
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/30778/9446534/domestic-winners-to-benefit-as-uefa-plans-change-to-champions-league-seeding-system
This was the system advocated by Martin Samuel this morning:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2737164/Champions-League-draw-tedious-bent-travesty-rewards-mediocre-old-guard-instead-domestic-champions.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
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booder
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 12771
Lazy , Hazy days
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #9312 on:
August 30, 2014, 02:10:01 PM »
Brendan Rodgers..."On behalf of everyone at Liverpool, I thank Daniel for his service to the club and hope he finishes his career with some happy times in Denmark."
Thanks and good luck Dan.
Logged
Quote from: action man
im not speculating, either, but id have been pretty peeved if i missed the thread and i ended up getting clipped, kindly accepting a lift home.
In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
Martin Luther King Jr
kp24
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 749
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #9313 on:
August 30, 2014, 10:03:32 PM »
Surprised agger hasn't gone to better club than brondby but all the best to him a brilliant ball playing cb when fit
Logged
Waz1892
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 2386
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #9314 on:
August 31, 2014, 12:58:34 PM »
Liverpool team to face Tottenham: Mignolet, Manquillo, Moreno, Lovren, Sakho, Gerrard, Allen, Henderson, Sterling, Sturridge, Balotelli.
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