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kinboshi
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« Reply #450 on: December 08, 2009, 01:48:57 PM »

Apparently, Purslow was keen to point out the financial implications of winning tomorrow's game and the players should not treat it as a dead rubber. The difference between winning and not winning is about £500,000.

No idea what else was discussed...
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« Reply #451 on: December 09, 2009, 09:33:14 AM »



Was going to take a punt at Rafa being next manager gone.  16/1 seemed good with a bit of inside info :-)

It would cost another run to the final to pay Rafa off next year.... 
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« Reply #452 on: December 09, 2009, 10:22:09 PM »

Lol @ thinking Aquilani should have played already. Not match fit at all.

So happy for Pacheco getting a few minutes, he will surely be a class act and even showed one or two signs of it.
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« Reply #453 on: December 09, 2009, 11:06:28 PM »

Lol @ thinking Aquilani should have played already. Not match fit at all.

So happy for Pacheco getting a few minutes, he will surely be a class act and even showed one or two signs of it.

+1

Aaron, what has happened to Jordy Brouwer.Thought he was pretty close to a first team callup.Has he gone off the boil?
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« Reply #454 on: December 10, 2009, 05:24:19 AM »

Isn't it about time to change this thread title to "liverpool fc a sad sad story"?
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kinboshi
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« Reply #455 on: December 10, 2009, 10:42:13 AM »

Isn't it about time to change this thread title to "liverpool fc a sad sad story"?

Cheesy
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« Reply #456 on: December 10, 2009, 08:45:22 PM »

Lol @ thinking Aquilani should have played already. Not match fit at all.

So happy for Pacheco getting a few minutes, he will surely be a class act and even showed one or two signs of it.

+1

Aaron, what has happened to Jordy Brouwer.Thought he was pretty close to a first team callup.Has he gone off the boil?

I don't think he's done much wrong but he must be the wrong side of 20 now and with N'gog in the side I don't think he's going to get games so he got shipped out on loan which is usually the death of you unless it's in England. I know he's 6 feet plus but N'gog seems to have a good all round game as well the presence Brouwer had. (Tbf you cant go wrong in England with height, pace and finishing which N'gog has all 3 of)

The one I really liked was Nemeth but he's out on lon now too. If he was a real gem he'd be here. From what I've seen he finishes like Fowler with either foot but lacks a yard or two which is a shame. The one who wont go wrong for me is Pacheco. Doesn't matter what level he plays at he just finds space. Reminds me of Arshavin.
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« Reply #457 on: December 10, 2009, 09:18:34 PM »

Isn't it about time to change this thread title to "liverpool fc a sad sad story"?

Actually, with the way the rest of the top 6 are playing in the EPL I'm confident a good run of games we see us comfortably move away from the pack who is aiming for top 4 and closer to the bigger guns. Now if only we could win a game....
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« Reply #458 on: December 10, 2009, 11:17:03 PM »

What's the general feeling of Liverpool fans towards the Europa League? All out to win it or best to not be distracted by it?

Could it be the straw that breaks the camels back between Rafa and the board?

I get the impression Rafa couldn't care less about it,whereas the board must surely be looking to win it for financial reasons(going on the "fact" that Purslow called said meeting with the players pre Fiorentina for the sake of £500k or so)
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« Reply #459 on: December 11, 2009, 12:01:34 AM »

What's the general feeling of Liverpool fans towards the Europa League? All out to win it or best to not be distracted by it?

Could it be the straw that breaks the camels back between Rafa and the board?

I get the impression Rafa couldn't care less about it,whereas the board must surely be looking to win it for financial reasons(going on the "fact" that Purslow called said meeting with the players pre Fiorentina for the sake of £500k or so)

Tbh the general feeling on the message boards is quite positive. Firstly it's a "new" competition and some fans think we'd be the "first" to win it. I disagree but w/e. Second, financially, it's not a terrible compition to have a good run in any more. Thirdly we've won it three times which is some kind of record I'm sure (maybe in the UK/England? not sure exactly) but Liverpool fans are ridiculously obssessed with records about winning things the most. And finally I think 6/7 days is too long to wait for a game for a season ticket holder.

Rafa will go for it - no question. If we were in with a shot at the league he might not as much but make no mistake it'll mean way more to him than any other competition now. European managers like Mourinho, Benitez etc will always rate it as it's a way of being recognised across the continent in the record books until forever. He'd love to win it with two different clubs within 6 seasons. It massively enhances their reputation in places like Spain whereas until a few years ago winning the EPL wouldn't have done so as much (although I'm sure it's not that way now).
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« Reply #460 on: December 11, 2009, 01:59:27 AM »

I just wonder if the Europa League is worth enough(in both footballing and financial terms) to Liverpool,that it justifies putting a squad that is admittedly lacking in strength in depth beyond 15/16 players through a Thursday/Sunday schedule all the while pursuing a top 4 spot with the likes of City,Spurs and Villa who as of now the first two have got deeper squads,and all 3 have a points advantage and no european distractions themselves.
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The Baron
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« Reply #461 on: December 11, 2009, 12:54:47 PM »

I just wonder if the Europa League is worth enough(in both footballing and financial terms) to Liverpool,that it justifies putting a squad that is admittedly lacking in strength in depth beyond 15/16 players through a Thursday/Sunday schedule all the while pursuing a top 4 spot with the likes of City,Spurs and Villa who as of now the first two have got deeper squads,and all 3 have a points advantage and no european distractions themselves.

Fair one. I think the squad should be able to handle both though. It does in the Champions League most seasons until the later stages (although a league challenge is rare) but I guess top 4 has to be the priority.

If I was Rafa I wouldnt be worried about the top 4 though. The form guide of the so called challenging teams is pretty average. All it would take it the average Liverpool haul of points under Rafa to secure 4th imo.

If I had to pick a threat it'd be Spurs with Modric fit. He is just different gravy.
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The Baron
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« Reply #462 on: December 11, 2009, 01:09:01 PM »

Don't agree with all of this ut I cannae stop posting him now can I! Tomkins:

I loathe the kind of 'punditry' that says, just six months on from a 2nd-placed finish, that Liverpool have never looked further away from landing the title.

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 It's so bereft of logic, it's laughable. It's pure nonsense.

I'm sure you've seen the kind of comments I'm referring to. They come thick and fast at times like this, so it doesn't hurt to take stock and look at the true picture.

For me, it's far easier for a good side to have a relatively poor season than for the opposite to occur.

Can an average 100m runner accidentally finish 2nd in the Olympics? Of course not. Could the world-record holder conceivably finish 5th? Yes; especially if he's not at his fittest, or slips on his way out of the blocks.

Teams underachieve and overachieve all the time, but never by large amounts. However, overachieving is more difficult, because you can't play better than you actually are, so it relies on others being well below par; but you can quite easily underachieve if you're missing too many players, or lacking confidence.

And the bigger the sample you look at, the less chance there is for anomalies to crop up.

So - was last season, with 86 points, and the title still a possibility going into May, an accident?

Or is this season the accident?

Well, what is the bigger sample? Last season we can judge on 38 league games; this season, in terms of the league, is only 15 games old.

(Ditto Europe: five very good-to-excellent campaigns surely tell us more than one substandard one? Man United went out at the group stages in 2006, and won the title a year later, and the Champions League a further 12 months down the line; doesn't mean such changes in fortune automatically follow, but it does show that demises are over-hyped.)

At the mid-point of last season, Liverpool were written off after a number of draws; "nowhere near good enough" came the cry from many in the media. In the end, they were very nearly good enough.

"Not enough goals", said the experts last January. Then Robbie Keane was sold, and despite being a striker down, the scoring rate more-or-less doubled; the Reds finished as the league's top scorers and put four past Chelsea and Madrid in Europe.

Last season, the Reds were as close as they've been to the title in 19 years. In terms of points accrued, Liverpool won 75% of those available, the second-best ever in the club's history.

So, that was an accident, was it? It may have involved a little overachievement, but certainly not much.

Of course, that was last season, this is a new season. Fair enough.

But what has changed? Have ten players departed, and ten new ones arrived? No.

Xabi Alonso has gone. However, let's remember, it's not been the loss of Maradona, Pele or Puskas. Or all three.

Alonso was an excellent player, but he wasn't a great goalscorer, or even a direct creator of chances. He was someone who kept the team ticking over, and that's important. But would he have done as well had he still been here and so many others been injured, as has been the case? Unlikely.

In terms of directly creating openings, it wasn't as if Alonso would ever do what Lucas did at Blackburn, and get to the byline in open to create a clear chance. So I don't see Alonso, who never scored more than a handful himself, as this 'ultra-positive' player, and Lucas as this 'negative' understudy.

Of course, even though his style has its differences, Alonso's natural replacement is Aquilani, whose injury lasted longer than expected. That meant he was even more behind in terms of fitness, making it catch-22 as to when to introduce him; further complicating matters.

However, Alonso's departure and Aquilani's absence are lesser factors in the dip in the Reds' overall form.

The same applies to the lack of a recognised back-up striker to Torres.

While the Spaniard has the club's best goals-per-minute ratio this term, at a stunning 111 minutes for every strike, David N'Gog is only fractionally behind. The Frenchman has also notched in some vital games.

So, while Liverpool have missed their no.9, I don't think you can expect much more from any understudy. (All the hysteria over Michael Owen this week, and it's easy to overlook that even after that hat-trick, N'Gog has a better goals-per-game record this season, and even more so in Premiership matches.)

What we would expect, however, is more goals from Steven Gerrard; but aside from missing games, he's spent a lot of time playing either with an injury or recovering from one. Again, that's difficult for any manager to work around.

So therefore, for me, it all comes down to two main things.

First, the form of key players earlier in the season.

And second, the injuries to key players throughout the season. (And often, both have gone hand-in-hand.)

Add to this the momentum factor, where a poor start takes the wind from your sails, ramps up pressure and causes mass hysteria (so that every game becomes gets the dreaded "must win" tag), and you have something approaching the 'perfect storm'. A negativity builds up in the press, and it takes its toll.

Of late, on top of celebrating the return to fitness of Gerrard, Torres and Aquilani, people are commenting on how it's great to see Carragher and Mascherano back to their best. So it's clear that neither began the season on form.

The Argentine had a lot of unsettling speculation over the summer, and more pertinently, the massive burden of a faltering World Cup campaign for his country, for which, as captain, he shouldered much of the responsibility (whether it was his fault or not). As soon as they qualified, he almost instantly 'returned' as his old self in Liverpool colours.

Coincidence? I doubt it. A key player, off colour, but now back on track.

Carragher also had a poor start to the season by his standards, but after almost 600 games, perhaps he was due such a spell. We can hardly criticise his consistency, can we? The club has had few more constantly reliable performers in its history.

Most crucial, perhaps, has been the lack of any defensive stability, due to what can only be called an injury crisis. This almost certainly added to Carragher's struggles; and even he ended up crocked at one point.

Add that the regular left-back is in his first full season in the side, and that the right-back is new to the club, along with injuries to Agger and Skrtel, and you can see the challenge the manager has faced, and the added pressure on Carragher.

It's fair to say that other teams are now experiencing injury crises. But with a bit of momentum already in their season, it's possibly easier to absorb. Then there's the lack of players to punish them; just when Man United ran out of fit defenders, ahead of travelling to West Ham, they found that their opponents had run out of fit strikers.

(To show that teams struggle without their best defenders, you only have to look at United conceding three at home to CSKA Moscow. And look at Arsenal's scoring record since losing Van Persie; from not drawing a blank up to November, they've now registered four in the six games since he got injured.)

Liverpool have used 13 different defensive line-ups this season, in just 23 games. Most of those changes have been enforced.

If you take Johnson, Carragher, Agger and Insua as the strongest defence (although Aurelio may well take over from the youngster), in four games, it has yet to concede a goal. I think that tells its own story.

But when you consider that 12 defenders have been used this season, five of whom had never started for the first team prior to August, four are 21 or under, and seven have played with, or are recovering from, injury, and you can see that the platform teams need to build upon has been far from ideal. (Thanks to Tomkins Times' subscriber Andrew Fanko for help with the research.)

You can get results despite this, but rarely a winning momentum. Injure Torres and Gerrard as well, and that only makes it harder. Experience many of these problems from the opening week, and it's an uphill struggle; a vicious circle.

Scoring goals this season has been less of a problem than conceding, which is why the three clean sheets in a row with the same back four (and Reina) was something to feel positive about.

It's a case of ifs and buts, and perhaps Liverpool would still be struggling if Torres, Gerrard, Carragher, Mascherano, Agger, Aurelio, et al, had been fit and/or firing on cylinders all season long, and Aquilani was only out until September, as expected. But I doubt it (even if a couple of them still had the same problems).

Add them all together, however, and yes, it's been below what we've come to expect from Liverpool in recent years. It might make the title a distant dream this season, but it doesn't define the strength of the team right now, or where it's heading in the future.

If anyone thinks that a line-up of Reina, Johnson, Agger, Carragher, Aurelio, Benayoun, Kuyt, Mascherano, Aquilani, Gerrard and Torres is behind where we were in 2004, then (with all due respect withdrawn) they need their head examined.

The rest of the season is a chance to build understanding and confidence, and get an idea of just how good the side can be, if everyone is fit and in form.
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kinboshi
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« Reply #463 on: December 11, 2009, 01:52:24 PM »

Quote
If anyone thinks that a line-up of Reina, Johnson, Agger, Carragher, Aurelio, Benayoun, Kuyt, Mascherano, Aquilani, Gerrard and Torres is behind where we were in 2004, then (with all due respect withdrawn) they need their head examined.

That's very true.
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« Reply #464 on: December 11, 2009, 02:01:54 PM »

I quite like the whole article actually I just disagree with everything the guy says about Alonso. The major reason we have conceeded goals this season (other than from set pieces) is giving away possession in midfield. We miss Alonso massively.
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